Z-pairs and Essential oils, what ones to use for urine odor?

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Bullseye1

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Oct 27, 2018
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Travis Campbell
#1
I’ve been researching essential oils and Zwaademker conjugates (z pairs). Looking for help in finding a nice combination of essential oils to remove urine odor. The other question I have is what is the best way to emulsify these oils into water?
 

AZHome&Carpet

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Michael Stevens
#2
Why would you rather mask the odor verses solving the issue with the correct products. Curious are you a carpet cleaner or someone who may have a issue trying to learn how to solve it?
 
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Mama Fen

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#3
There is no combination of oils, however fragrant or pleasant, that will "remove urine odor". The way to remove an odor is to remove the source.

Certain pairing agents or oxidizers will bind to airborne odors and change them at the molecular level so that they are no longer recognized by the olfactory lobe of the brain, but this is only a temporary fix. Masking agents (like essential oils) do not change the odor, but simply overwhelm it with their own, stronger odor. Again, a temporary fix.

If there is still a source (ie, urine in the carpet), it will continue to produce odor.

Once the pairing or masking agent is exhausted, the odor will be just as bad as it was before.
 
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Bullseye1

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#4
Thanks for the update. I have noticed that so many popular “cide” products as well as many other odor products for smoke and fire damage keep bringing up a blend of essential oils as their ingredients for removing odor. Their claim is as long as it’s touching the source of the odor it has the ability to change the molecular structure to not longer be detected as a bad smell. I understand that the source can be a real challenge to remove fully, if you know of products that fully remove them please let me know what they are. I’ve been down the gauntlet of enzymes, cides, oxidizer and encapsulates without a “wow” moment as of yet. I’m always on a continuous search so any new info is always appreciated.
 
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AZHome&Carpet

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#5
My question was sincere are you asking as a homeowner or a carpet cleaner?
 

Mama Fen

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Thanks for the update. I have noticed that so many popular “cide” products as well as many other odor products for smoke and fire damage keep bringing up a blend of essential oils as their ingredients for removing odor. Their claim is as long as it’s touching the source of the odor it has the ability to change the molecular structure to not longer be detected as a bad smell. I understand that the source can be a real challenge to remove fully, if you know of products that fully remove them please let me know what they are. I’ve been down the gauntlet of enzymes, cides, oxidizer and encapsulates without a “wow” moment as of yet. I’m always on a continuous search so any new info is always appreciated.
If the urine odor is in a soft surface like a carpet or cushion, the source is likely well below the surface and can be difficult to remove completely. Sub-surface extraction is usually the way to go.

I'd suggest you reach out to @Scott W and ask him for the in-depth urine guide - it's truly one of the most useful pieces of information out there when it comes to dealing with the "liquid gold"!
 
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AZHome&Carpet

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#8
Thanks I didn’t recognize your member name yet.
I have searched for the source of a odor which sometimes is brutal to find. I have injected products directly into the problem area with my own mix of medical grade pure hydrogen peroxide (diluted) with essential oils mixed in for a pleasant after smell. Medical grade pure peroxide is dirt cheap and a bottle of essentials are also.
I almost always try to extract the problem area by water clawing it however to remove the issue the best I can.
 

Bullseye1

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Travis Campbell
#9
Ok thanks, I always enjoy reading his comments and posts and I will reach out to him. We do use all these correct methods such as sub surface extraction for removing urine.I guess what I’m really tunneling down to is reason so many of the big players in the odor removal industry are using essential oils. I always like to know what works but also why it is working. I surprised to see this on their SDS sheets and info on the products, my real goal in searching is to answer why. If anyone has info on this I would like to know.
 

Scott W

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#10
Thanks for the update. I have noticed that so many popular “cide” products as well as many other odor products for smoke and fire damage keep bringing up a blend of essential oils as their ingredients for removing odor. Their claim is as long as it’s touching the source of the odor it has the ability to change the molecular structure to not longer be detected as a bad smell. I understand that the source can be a real challenge to remove fully, if you know of products that fully remove them please let me know what they are. I’ve been down the gauntlet of enzymes, cides, oxidizer and encapsulates without a “wow” moment as of yet. I’m always on a continuous search so any new info is always appreciated.
The "...cide" products may contain essential oils. The essential oils may be conjugates that act as pairing agents for malodor molecules in the air. However, not all "cides" contain essential oils and that is not their primary means of eliminating odors. An example of a "...cide" with no added fragrance is Bridgepoint's Hydrocide. (The Hydrocide Xtreme version does have a fragrance from essential oils.)

"...cide" products eliminate odors by means of certain zinc salts. Details are proprietary and not shared publicly. They do work on contact. They do encapsulate or surround the odor molecule preventing it from making contact with receptors in our nose. Thus the odor is eliminated.

Some folks like the addition of essential oils to mask odors while the other components are working. I find that many of the products with essential oils tend to be over-powering and last too long. I think home-owners would rather have no odor than a cover-up.

No added fragrance also means that the cleaning tech can tell if his efforts are working.

For anyone who wants the odor manual - send an email request to my associate slewis@interlinksupply.com
 
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Mama Fen

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#11
Ok thanks, I always enjoy reading his comments and posts and I will reach out to him. We do use all these correct methods such as sub surface extraction for removing urine.I guess what I’m really tunneling down to is reason so many of the big players in the odor removal industry are using essential oils. I always like to know what works but also why it is working. I surprised to see this on their SDS sheets and info on the products, my real goal in searching is to answer why. If anyone has info on this I would like to know.

As someone who works with literally hundreds of chemicals on a regular basis, I don't see essential oils as being a common ingredient in most urine treatments (at least, they're not listed as such - technically d-limonene could be considered an essential oil, and it's one of the most common cleaning agents in our industry).

Hydrocide is an extraordinarily effective odor control product, and is commonly used after fires or even in trauma scene cleanup where smells can go from simply unpleasant to downright unbearable. Its active ingredients are a proprietary secret - even I can't puzzle it out, and trust me I've been trying for seven years! - but with hundreds of guys in the field giving me positive feedback on it, I can safely say with some assurance that it works.

Peroxides are strong oxidizers, and thus are also very effective at odor control (they're like aggressive little mini-Santas, giving oxygen atoms to everyone whether they want 'em or not).

But if you're mixing a peroxide with another chemical, you may be lessening its ability to do its job - perhaps it's so busy oxidizing your essential oil that neither one of them is reaching the target at full strength?
 

Tom Forsythe

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Mar 20, 2006
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#12
One downside of essential oils was experienced in my own house. My wife is a teacher and was given a gift on essential oils. She spilled the essential oils on the carpet going up a short stairs to our kitchen. We spotted with encapsulates almost immediately. I repeated the procedure a few times so I would not have to bring home the extractor. For other reasons we decided to replace the carpet so I did not make any further attempts to clean up the area. I was AMAZED at how much soil attracted to the essential oil area in the two weeks we were waiting for the new nylon carpet. The point is that if you are using essential oils then make sure there is no soil attracting residue left on the areas you treat. We always add soil resistant polymers to products with fragrance that may not always be extracted.
 
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Bullseye1

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Oct 27, 2018
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Travis Campbell
#13
The "...cide" products may contain essential oils. The essential oils may be conjugates that act as pairing agents for malodor molecules in the air. However, not all "cides" contain essential oils and that is not their primary means of eliminating odors. An example of a "...cide" with no added fragrance is Bridgepoint's Hydrocide. (The Hydrocide Xtreme version does have a fragrance from essential oils.)

"...cide" products eliminate odors by means of certain zinc salts. Details are proprietary and not shared publicly. They do work on contact. They do encapsulate or surround the odor molecule preventing it from making contact with receptors in our nose. Thus the odor is eliminated.

Some folks like the addition of essential oils to mask odors while the other components are working. I find that many of the products with essential oils tend to be over-powering and last too long. I think home-owners would rather have no odor than a cover-up.

No added fragrance also means that the cleaning tech can tell if his efforts are working.

For anyone who wants the odor manual - send an email request to my associate slewis@interlinksupply.com
Thanks Scott! Great info, I was excited to see that you replied to my thread, you always have great insights without being demeaning. I finally signed up for TMF because of this question about odor. I’m fascinated by the chemistry of odor remediation and trying to dissect why products do what they say they do. As I keep digging I find things I need help finding answers, that’s why I like this forum. As mentioned already oil and carpet do not mix well and I should be clear that I don’t use essential oils, only if they are in products I’m purchasing such as Hydrocide xtream, odorcide or Vaportek just to name a few. Always just trying to learn as much as I can about what I’m using. I’ll give pain hydrocide a shot as well. I just purchased TMF eco cide last week and I’ll see how that works in comparison. Thanks for the link as well, im interested in what it has to say.
 

Mama Fen

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#14
Thanks Scott! Great info, I was excited to see that you replied to my thread, you always have great insights without being demeaning. I finally signed up for TMF because of this question about odor. I’m fascinated by the chemistry of odor remediation and trying to dissect why products do what they say they do. As I keep digging I find things I need help finding answers, that’s why I like this forum. As mentioned already oil and carpet do not mix well and I should be clear that I don’t use essential oils, only if they are in products I’m purchasing such as Hydrocide xtream, odorcide or Vaportek just to name a few. Always just trying to learn as much as I can about what I’m using. I’ll give pain hydrocide a shot as well. I just purchased TMF eco cide last week and I’ll see how that works in comparison. Thanks for the link as well, im interested in what it has to say.
Tony Macaluso teaches a fantastic IICRC course on odor - it covers how the brain perceives odor, how we can "trick" the brain by changing the shape of odor particles, how pairing agents work, and many other fascinating aspects of sensory input. If it's available anywhere in your area, I highly recommend you check it out. He focuses quite a bit on urine in particular.

I always tell my local guys that it's one of the most important classes any cleaner or restorer can take - if the carpet is clean but the customer even thinks it still smells funky, you lose. But if you can make a bad smell go away before you even get started, you're a winner no matter what.