what is butyl? | TruckMount Forums #1 Carpet Cleaning Forums

what is butyl?

bob_rugratz

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Hopefully they us high flash point D'Limonene in carpet products. Could be wrong. Hope they do. LOL.
Depends on volume of peroxide if it will eat your skin I think. My friend cleans hoods and he told me about some stuff that would do that instantly if you got it on you.
Most likely he ordered straight from chem factory in bulk.
He tried to get me to buy a drum of sodium hydroxide. He said it's cheap as hell that way. I never did. He did some carpets with it and got it on the baseboards and didn't rinse under a few tables. It looked like crap. powder everywhere. Guess that was soda ash. He almost lost a HUGE account that way. I took it over for a while for him after that.
He's a hood cleaner. Go's big on everything. I got a story that shows that. I posted somewhere on here. Short part is he used a 38" surface cleaner in a restaurant on T&G, hooked to his rig. 7 g/min. and here I am chasing all this water with my TM and a gekko. the chem he used burnt all the damn kick plates to boot.
Potassium hydroxide doesn't powder the same that I know of. Or maybe I just rinse it well.
Good posting here though. I am no chemist but as all, I am interested in what does what and for how much $

Grant, you remember more than I do. I was worried about chemistry of mixed drinks. I wouldn't mind taking a refresher course and surely need it. Maybe come up with something great some day !!
 

racebum

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Hopefully they us high flash point D'Limonene in carpet products!
there is no such thing. pure or at least 90% pure d-limonene has a flash point of roughly 125deg

the way to raise it is adding water. this is also why most the popular products you buy on the shelf are maybe 40% d-lime
 

Nuclean Supply

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Buying a 50lb of sodium hydroxide (lye) needs special precautions let alone a 400lb drum.
Sodium hydroxide is like thermite if you get it on your skin. This is one chemical I strongly advise you to forget about storing and using to boost your pH in your cleaner. In its pure bulk form its very very dangerous, ill give you an example. We have its cousin on site called postasium hydroxide aka koh. Just a tad of this powder landed on my wrist and melted my skin. I still have this scar from this incident. Sodium Hydroxide is even more caustic then postasium hydroxide! If even one pellet lands on a piece of wet carpet. It will melt through the carpet and leave a permanent mark.

If you accidently get lye in your eyes you might end up like this person.
[bimg]http://www.oftalmo.com/seo/archivos/maquetas/A/5BFBFF11-C25C-4249-B32D-00001FE1F6DA/f04-11.jpg[/bimg]
 

procleanpros

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bob_rugratz

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Oh i was just reading this. From a company u can buy different formulations. Dont think they use water though.

CITRUSoy® Super High Flash is a solvent based on soy methyl ester with a light citrus fragrance. It is ideal for applications requiring a flash point greater than 200°F. It is a slow evaporating solvent with excellent penetrating characteristics. This product has been awarded Design for the Environment recognition
 

Clean-Team

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Potassium Hydroxide or caustic potash as it is often called is similar to caustic soda (lye). Both chems are used in soap making where animal or plant fats (triglycerides) are turned into something similar to bathroom cake soap by hydrolysis. The process is correctly called "transestherfication" and it is the same process that helps get grease out of resteraunt carpets. The caustic (either one) begins to saponify the oils on contact, effectively turning the grease in the carpet to soap, which of course rinses away pretty well with hot water.

Grant
 

Jimsteam

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As of lately I have been using Spartans Non Butyl 130 in a quart sprayer on the traffic lanes (mixed 50/50 with water ) along with Procyon Plus powder. There are still those times when "Green" will not do the job and I need to pull out the "Big Guns".
No backyard chemist for me brewing up concoctions in cauldron over a fire. Having to meet members in a parking lot to sell his products .
http://www.spartanchemical.com/products/product/213004
 

Mojo Rising

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Sometimes things are best left unsaid and just move forward. Then there are times when things need to be vetted and especially on matters relating to business. I have severals emails from the owner of a particular BB. Demanding with a ultimatum that if NuClean did not send a check or paypal to him within 3 days in the amount of almost $10k. NuClean would be banned and there would be no negotiating. Imagine being coerced to turn over the name, phone # of our PhD chemist (Nice Try), then make things look legitimate they asked to provide MSDS links (which have always been available on our website), Physical address of MFG facility with pictures showing our blending equipment (Physical address on all shipping labels). And another odd request that we are not associated with K. Harris (Huh ?). Its obvious these where just tools to try coerce NuClean make up the financial loss when this advertiser threatened to leave and pull there advertising money. And to get inside information on our mfg process and our Chemists (formulations)

Here is what NuClean could have received in return if we would have paid these protection monies.

-----------

"If you fulfill those requests you will have full membership and advertising benfits given to you. Publishing rights to the front/Main Page, a shopping cart, coupons, hyper linked proprietary words etc.
No negotiating, no dancing around".

---------------

In short an advertiser threatened to leave this bb, unless immediate was taken to remove NuClean. And NuClean wanted to know why - we posted an independent lab test which was conducted with a spectrophotometer on a series of presprays. A protocol using the scientific method reflectance value where measured in relation to baseline reference swatches to the stained swatches. When we published the results, I guess this company wasn't happy with the results of their flag ship product. So they went to the owner of this bb and gave him an ultimatum.

Our user name and posts where taken over then edited to say things that we never posted.

We never expected this kind of control and behavior.

So having said that, to say there is not 1-3 influential people associated with this bulletin board that is not in back pockets of "some" of its advertisers, and that its reviews are completely unbiased. We choose not to comment :)

However, there are some great members there whom Ive come to know very well and talk to on a regular basis. And they tell me they see through minutiae and the suspicious promotions and product reviews. Which possibly after this post im sure they will be more cautious and camouflage there posts more carefully in the future.

I have the emails and the conversations documented to support all of this. However
im not going to further comment on this issue as we are into the new year of 2013.

Yeah if you got the emails, feel free to post them. I watched that thread/threads about your products and all they wanted to know was what the deal was with your product. Lets cut the BS.. you basically plagerized what it said on the Mike Rowe cleaning product.. what it looked like, said and so on. When people posted it online that it was the same, that is when things went south for you there. I can see why you would feel so jaded towards that BB.. they also thought your Resolve Stick clone was a good product but way over priced for how long it lasted. Do you have proof that they edited you posts, I've been over there for many years and never seen them change people content while adding their own to make like you wrote it.

They just wanted to make sure you weren't buying the Mike Rowe cleaner and not relabeling it as your product. You were a new person selling a cleaning product, its understandably people would want to know more... since we are the ones that have to use it in the customers home.

Even you will have to admit and did admit (on MB) that your products are strikingly similar to products I mentioned above.
 

racebum

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As of lately I have been using Spartans Non Butyl 130 in a quart sprayer on the traffic lanes (mixed 50/50 with water ) along with Procyon Plus powder. There are still those times when "Green" will not do the job and I need to pull out the "Big Guns".
No backyard chemist for me brewing up concoctions in cauldron over a fire. Having to meet members in a parking lot to sell his products .
http://www.spartanchemical.com/products/product/213004
same brand makes an excellent d-limonene a 5 gallon pail of 90% is $140-150 which is roughly the same as 10 gallons of the cleaner supply citrus solvs and knock offs
 

Scott W

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will it actually say butyl on the ingredients or will it say something else?
Not likely that the ingredient list will say "Butyl." Butyl is more of a nick-name. There is more than one form of butyl. Each form has several accepted scientific names. Some of these have been mentioned in this thread already - Butyl Cellosolve, ehtylene glycol, 2-Butoxyethanol or Ethylene Glycol Monobutyl Ether and other variations. You can check the CAS #s for an ingredient to see all the various names it may be listed under.

There is a P series and an N series of this solvent. Depending upon whom you ask, one is safer than the other in different circumstances.

It works very well and can mean that you need much less solvent than if you used something else that was not as effective.

The keys to safely using butyl are #1 Be sure the prespray is not atomized or vaporized, you don't want to those small droplets floating around in the air where they can be inhaled. Keep it on the carpet, not in the air. #2 Don't allow a concentrated solution to get on your skin. Rinse off with lots of water if that happens. A few people are especially sensitive to butyl solvents, but for most people it is as safe to use as most alternative solvents used in our industry.
 
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racebum

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Not likely that the ingredient list will say "Butyl." Butyl is more of a nick-name. There is more than one form of butyl. Each form has several accepted scientific names. Some of these have been mentioned in this thread already - Butyl Cellosolve, ehtylene glycol, 2-Butoxyethanol or Ethylene Glycol Monobutyl Ether and other variations. You can check the CAS #s for an ingredient to see all the various names it may be listed under.

There is a P series and an N series of this solvent. Depending upon whom you ask, one is safer than the other in different circumstances.

It works very well and can mean that you need much less solvent than if you used something else that was not as effective.

The keys to safely using butyl are #1 Be sure the prespray is not atomized or vaporized, you don't want to those small droplets floating around in the air where they can be inhaled. Keep it on the carpet, not in the air. #2 Don't allow a concentrated solution to get on your skin. Rinse off with lots of water if that happens. A few people are especially sensitive to butyl solvents, but for most people it is as safe to use as most alternative solvents used in our industry.
while i agree that not letting it go airborne is very important, the second you hit it with the wand the steam rises in the air. personally speaking the really solvent heavy pre sprays like blitz i won't even use anymore. why? well i can use non butyl d-limonene with a light weight product like biokleen fiberglow and adjust the power by how much d-lime i add. when i first started cleaning and was banging out restaurants with blitz and powerburst my mile run time suffered and my lungs actually felt itchy. that stuff is not good to be breathing day in and day out. in fact working with cleaning supplies in general puts a person at 4x the risk for asthma compared to someone who does not

i use very little butyl and do not plan on buying anymore. when my current stock slowly depletes it's non butyl only.
 

Jimsteam

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while i agree that not letting it go airborne is very important, the second you hit it with the wand the steam rises in the air. personally speaking the really solvent heavy pre sprays like blitz i won't even use anymore. why? well i can use non butyl d-limonene with a light weight product like biokleen fiberglow and adjust the power by how much d-lime i add. when i first started cleaning and was banging out restaurants with blitz and powerburst my mile run time suffered and my lungs actually felt itchy. that stuff is not good to be breathing day in and day out. in fact working with cleaning supplies in general puts a person at 4x the risk for asthma compared to someone who does not

i use very little butyl and do not plan on buying anymore. when my current stock slowly depletes it's non butyl only.

Process of doing exactly the same . No Butyl
 

Clean-Team

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To each their own. I actually look for Butoxyethanol in a pre spray and find alternatives a bit wimpy. It's unique ether - alcohol 1 - 2 punch is a fairly significant performance advantage and it has very desirable residue characteristics which aid in the prevention of rapid resoling. It is a very broad spectrum product, with good dosage and environmental breakdown characteristics. It's used in so many things that even if I stopped using pre sprays with it, I'd still be exposed frequently. And much of that exposure is dermal, as it's used in personal care products.

I like that it mixes readily with other agents such as citrus oil and enzymes, so performance is even more extendable. I also like that it is completely miscible with water, which citrus is not.

Many alternatives present their own dangers and need to be used much stronger to deliver comparable performance. D'Limonene has been shown to cause liver tumors in rats, and that is the primary candidate to replace Butoxyethanol, it is also far slower to break down in the environment, accumulates in aquatic organisms and eventually kills them as well as the creatures that prey in them. It also contaminates soil and groundwater and is highly flammable and corrosive to many plastics, lacquers, coatings, paints and finishes.

Nonetheless citrus is very good and will see continued use, so it is with Butoxyethanol.

As above, to each their own.

Grant