What gross # per year for O/O to sustain success? | TruckMount Forums #1 Carpet Cleaning Forums

What gross # per year for O/O to sustain success?

Select

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You seem to understand.
Except for a few variances, like some companies do NOT have a van payment.

Also, Tech pay, waaaay to low. Try $50-60K for a good tech plus vacation, and some benefits.
Aslo good tech will bring in 200K+ per year. You just got to keep them busy 5 days a week for 48-50 weeks a year at $1000+ gross average per day or $5000 per week.

Also, Insurance gets cheaper on a per van basis as you add vans. For instance I pay $4200 per year for 3 vans and a trailer with 5 drivers on the policy. We have full coverage with a replacement rider @$60K for each van to cover van and equipment full replacement if totaled.

Also as you get more vans your office labor goes down as 1 person can generally handle 2 vans worth of incoming and outgoing calls.

Also your marketing dollars will actually decrease on a per van basis as you ad vans.


So your net % per van will also go up as you add more vans.

Make sense.?
at $50-$60K a year would think can bring in good people willing to work. That is a good wage for many a people. Can have a family at that wage.

A good tech brings in $200K+ due to strong sales skills or did you mean something else?
 
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Select

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As a new business, you kick and fight and scream to put every and any dollar you can in your pocket. Goals are nice in this phase but really only good as motivators.

I was gone from the forum for a while. Where are you from Oxi, how long you been in bizz etc.
My name is Matt. I am from Columbus Ohio. My company does 70% air duct and dryer vent cleaning with the rest in Carpet and a tiny bit of tile and grout. I got into this industry in 2007. I started my business in 2011. If you search my posts here you can see one of my very first posts was a, Is this van worth the asking price. I have chronicled much of my business thinking on my journey over the last 8 years here on the forum so it can hopefully help others.
I will have to check out some of your threads and posts. Columbus is a pretty big market with over 800K people. That probably allows for scaling.. Not to say you haven't earned the right to scale. Hopefully you understand I don't mean it must have been easy.

Sounds like you are rockling it.
 
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OxiFreshGuy

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Yeah it's simple math
2,080 hours in a standard work year.

1,500 of those hours reasonably spent cleaning at average $100 an hour = $150,000 for the year.
 

OxiFreshGuy

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I don't know what markets you guys work in but nobody pays a carpet tech in st Louis more than $15 an hour.
 

Spazznout

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at $50-$60K a year would think can bring in good people willing to work. That is a good wage for many a people. Can have a family at that wage.

A good tech brings in $200K+ due to strong sales skills or did you mean something else?
not just sales, he needs enough jobs on his daily rout.
4-5 jobs per day, 5 days a week, 1000 dollars in sales average per day.
Keep them busy for 11 months out of the year......
No upselling, all upfront pricing before the tech arrives.
 

Luky

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Let me steer debate over to a different approach in " pursuit of " happiness". You're throwing numbers of hours, jobs , it feels like I'm listening to a Blue crew and SS operations. I clearly remember past discussions about quality of our services featuring prevac, crb-ing, extraction, encap, post padding, etc. My question is, are we quantifying success with numbers of jobs? I understand that there are some businesses working that way and this concept is working for them , but I don't want newcomers to think that carpet cleaning is about running around senseless. What about selective market and I'm not talking " high end" customers. Shouldn't we rather ask ourselves , how many jobs a day make business successful enough? I just feel bad for members like @Select , their brains are like a sponge, if you tell them carpet cleaning is about numbers of jobs, they'll believe it. I was running like that for years , than I talked to a wise man who told me: Marian, use Pareto principle ( 80/20 rule) Those of you familiar with this rule, will give me benefit of the doubt. I rarely have more than two jobs a day and I don't have to prove to anyone that I'm very happy with my company standing. I hope I'm not misunderstood and I mean no disrespect to @Spazznout . I just opted for a self sustaining business model which carries less hours, more profit and plenty of relax.
 

Jim Davisson

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Prices and cost of living vary so much it's hard to compare apples to apples. In Thumpers example he needs to do $800,000+ a year to make it all happen and be sustainable. California prices are very different from my NC prices. I've seen prices talked about up to 60-70¢ a square out west. Here in my area of NC that doesn't happen day in day out, that I've heard of. I have to take into account another owners geography before I can compare numbers. Forums and fakebook can easily make your operation sound inadequate when in reality you are right on track. My brother and I average $3-5k a week on one van during the summer, split the work and we are home by 4 most days, prepping and loading out the van for the next day. In California the low end number would be abysmal and a recipe for disaster and here it's profitable. This fall we go back to 2 vans until next summer. We are not killing ourselves everyday in these brutal NC summers anymore. We are happier, the customers are happier and we have much less rescheduling of a second trip for profitable add on work, that can be one to two weeks out. It's not as profitable having to make a second trip when you add it up.
 

carolinasurface

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Lol it's easy to know why guys are "broke" after years of it - I've seen an example first hand. Owner with 5 vans, 15 years in business, now claims he is "broke" and going to shut down his business...

Real truth is, he hasn't paid himself in 5 years because it all goes into his retirement account. He pays for his entire lifestyle, his mortgage, Mercedes, gas, insurance, TV, internet, cell phone, eating out, EVERYTHING is paid for THROUGH the business. But yet he doesn't get a "paycheck"

Uses the same excuse to not pay his employees sometimes.

The last 5 years he has done $400 - $500,000 in sales per year. No new truck mounts, all trucks/mounts have been paid off, nothing newer than 5 years old.

Has 3-4 technicians any given year, paying them $30-$40,000 each.

Do the math. He does very clever accounting. Constantly cries he is broke, yet he is living the high life. Oh and the beautiful part is he is old enough to be qualified for Medicare.

So it's true, he doesn't collect a paycheck, but he benefits almost $80,000 per year by his expenses through the business.

He does draw a small salary, $30,000 per year. No idea what his tax breaks are, I'm assuming he pays little to no taxes as every year he tries to operate at a "loss".

As a LLC Subchapter S he takes disbursements from the company as well.

So essentially his total pay is really more around $110,000 - plus he only pays taxes on $30,000 of it.
That's not how the taxes work. If he is an S corporation, he will pay on ALL profits as a business. Then pay taxes personally on what he pays himself and disbursement.

If he is an LLC. He pays on all of it regardless of how much he moves from business account to personal account.
 
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Spazznout

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Let me steer debate over to a different approach in " pursuit of " happiness". You're throwing numbers of hours, jobs , it feels like I'm listening to a Blue crew and SS operations. I clearly remember past discussions about quality of our services featuring prevac, crb-ing, extraction, encap, post padding, etc. My question is, are we quantifying success with numbers of jobs? I understand that there are some businesses working that way and this concept is working for them , but I don't want newcomers to think that carpet cleaning is about running around senseless. What about selective market and I'm not talking " high end" customers. Shouldn't we rather ask ourselves , how many jobs a day make business successful enough? I just feel bad for members like @Select , their brains are like a sponge, if you tell them carpet cleaning is about numbers of jobs, they'll believe it. I was running like that for years , than I talked to a wise man who told me: Marian, use Pareto principle ( 80/20 rule) Those of you familiar with this rule, will give me benefit of the doubt. I rarely have more than two jobs a day and I don't have to prove to anyone that I'm very happy with my company standing. I hope I'm not misunderstood and I mean no disrespect to @Spazznout . I just opted for a self sustaining business model which carries less hours, more profit and plenty of relax.
Few observations.
Notice I only work my crews 5 days a week 7 to 9 hours per day.
Work life balance is HUUUUGE for me and my company.
We are focused on delivering a unique experience and this is evident in the 100's of 5 star online reviews where people regularly talk about not only their cleaning results, but also they speak on the Experience we delivered for them.

Gotta talk numbers if you wanna know where you were and where your business is going. Numbers are what make or break business owners. Not sure what your aversion to talking about numbers is. It seems you have a bad taste in your mouth from working near or with a major Corporation in your past..

Seems what you are touching on is the difference between O/O business and multi truck.
Thats a different conversation. But the numbers they are the same on a per truck basis with either model.

Just because you have more than one crew does NOT mean you let quality slip, actually the opposite is true as your company sees, more and more customers the odds go UP you may not satisfy them all and land negative reviews. So you have to have MORE focus on quality as you grow.

Not sure where you got the impression quality goes down with employees. Fact is, some of them are better than me. If you think you are the best at everything, you are fooling yourself. This diversity of skills and talents combined when you have employees, actually let you deliver more for the customer than an O/O in my opinion as you have a pool of skills to draw from as opposed to being dependent on yourself and then just winging it if your skills set is sub par.

So yeah, we gotta talk numbers.
Its very Important.

As for the easy life.
There is great reward in not having to push the wand every day.
There is great reward in developing an employee and watching them grow in the business and personally from my efforts and their hard work, creativity, and dedication.
Once you have established systems and good people with talent to run those system, life gets real comfortable. It gives you time to do what you want to do cause you have a business generating revenue for you without personally laboring or using up your day.
 
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MikeGaure

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Few observations.
Notice I only work my crews 5 days a week 7 to 9 hours per day.
Work life balance is HUUUUGE for me and my company.
We are focused on delivering a unique experience and this is evident in the 100's of 5 star online reviews where people regularly talk about not only their cleaning results, but also they speak on the Experience we delivered for them.

Gotta talk numbers if you wanna know where you were and where your business is going. Numbers are what make or break business owners. Not sure what your aversion to talking about numbers is. It seems you have a bad taste in your mouth from working near or with a major Corporation in your past..

Seems what you are touching on is the difference between O/O business and multi truck.
Thats a different conversation. But the numbers they are the same on a per truck basis with either model.

Just because you have more than one crew does NOT mean you let quality slip, actually the opposite is true as your company sees, more and more customers the odds go UP you may not satisfy them all and land negative reviews. So you have to have MORE focus on quality as you grow.

Not sure where you got the impression quality goes down with employees. Fact is, some of them are better than me. If you think you are the best at everything, you are fooling yourself. This diversity of skills and talents combined when you have employees, actually let you deliver more for the customer than an O/O in my opinion as you have a pool of skills to draw from as opposed to being dependent on yourself and then just winging it if your skills set is sub par.

So yeah, we gotta talk numbers.
Its very Important.

As for the easy life.
There is great reward in not having to push the wand every day.
There is great reward in developing an employee and watching them grow in the business and personally from my efforts and their hard work, creativity, and dedication.
Once you have established systems and good people with talent to run those system, life gets real comfortable. It gives you time to do what you want to do cause you have a business generating revenue for you without personally laboring or using up your day.
Well written and a good read
 
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ACP

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Honestly I struggle to understand the numbers myself.

A single truck by itself with one technician is capable of $120,000 to $150,000 in a year.

Assuming you're a new business and have a truck payment here is the breakdown

$30,000 for the tech
$18,000 in van payments
$5,000 in gas
4% in supplies and chems (roughly $8,000)
10% advertising per truck ($15,000)
10% wear and tear/repair fund ($15,000)
Insurance ($2,000 per truck)

That's only $93,000 so far.

Assuming you have another $7,000 in other costs you still profited $20-$50,000
off that truck
In our market closer to 175k-200 but also nobody will do it for 30k/yr.

Anyone here can deliver for amazon and make more than double that without the hard labor.
 
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ACP

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Few observations.
Notice I only work my crews 5 days a week 7 to 9 hours per day.
Work life balance is HUUUUGE for me and my company.
We are focused on delivering a unique experience and this is evident in the 100's of 5 star online reviews where people regularly talk about not only their cleaning results, but also they speak on the Experience we delivered for them.

Gotta talk numbers if you wanna know where you were and where your business is going. Numbers are what make or break business owners. Not sure what your aversion to talking about numbers is. It seems you have a bad taste in your mouth from working near or with a major Corporation in your past..

Seems what you are touching on is the difference between O/O business and multi truck.
Thats a different conversation. But the numbers they are the same on a per truck basis with either model.

Just because you have more than one crew does NOT mean you let quality slip, actually the opposite is true as your company sees, more and more customers the odds go UP you may not satisfy them all and land negative reviews. So you have to have MORE focus on quality as you grow.

Not sure where you got the impression quality goes down with employees. Fact is, some of them are better than me. If you think you are the best at everything, you are fooling yourself. This diversity of skills and talents combined when you have employees, actually let you deliver more for the customer than an O/O in my opinion as you have a pool of skills to draw from as opposed to being dependent on yourself and then just winging it if your skills set is sub par.

So yeah, we gotta talk numbers.
Its very Important.

As for the easy life.
There is great reward in not having to push the wand every day.
There is great reward in developing an employee and watching them grow in the business and personally from my efforts and their hard work, creativity, and dedication.
Once you have established systems and good people with talent to run those system, life gets real comfortable. It gives you time to do what you want to do cause you have a business generating revenue for you without personally laboring or using up your day.
We shoot for 4 - 10s. 3 days off if wanted, or hustle and make a higher rate on extra days.


I agree though, not touching a wand and watching your systems play out is very interesting... it forces you to think of the business in a completely different manner.
 

Select

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Let me steer debate over to a different approach in " pursuit of " happiness". You're throwing numbers of hours, jobs , it feels like I'm listening to a Blue crew and SS operations. I clearly remember past discussions about quality of our services featuring prevac, crb-ing, extraction, encap, post padding, etc. My question is, are we quantifying success with numbers of jobs? I understand that there are some businesses working that way and this concept is working for them , but I don't want newcomers to think that carpet cleaning is about running around senseless. What about selective market and I'm not talking " high end" customers. Shouldn't we rather ask ourselves , how many jobs a day make business successful enough? I just feel bad for members like @Select , their brains are like a sponge, if you tell them carpet cleaning is about numbers of jobs, they'll believe it. I was running like that for years , than I talked to a wise man who told me: Marian, use Pareto principle ( 80/20 rule) Those of you familiar with this rule, will give me benefit of the doubt. I rarely have more than two jobs a day and I don't have to prove to anyone that I'm very happy with my company standing. I hope I'm not misunderstood and I mean no disrespect to @Spazznout . I just opted for a self sustaining business model which carries less hours, more profit and plenty of relax.
My sense of importance has increased due to your shout out, albeit momentarily. :)

My brain is like a sponge (compliment), but believing everything Im told might be a backhanded compliment? Surely you wouldn't intend for that to occur.

If you are familiar with a Venn diagram it might be helpful to think of one now in regards to how I choose to take in and process information. I hear information from that side and then I hear information from the other side. Sometimes, information comes from more than 2 sides. Then, in the middle, my hope is that I can take the information that makes sense to me (from all sides) and apply it for my own well being as well as the people I serve.

I doubt I always come to the best conclusions and Im sure there is much room for improvement. Im quite certain ive even been deceived by some through my open mindedness. First time shame on you, second time shame on me..I believe most people are good and I tend to want to listen to those with experience in matters in which I haven't any. Especially if I am interested in learning those matters.
 

Luky

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My sense of importance has increased due to your shout out, albeit momentarily. :)

My brain is like a sponge (compliment), but believing everything Im told might be a backhanded compliment? Surely you wouldn't intend for that to occur.

If you are familiar with a Venn diagram it might be helpful to think of one now in regards to how I choose to take in and process information. I hear information from that side and then I hear information from the other side. Sometimes, information comes from more than 2 sides. Then, in the middle, my hope is that I can take the information that makes sense to me (from all sides) and apply it for my own well being as well as the people I serve.

I doubt I always come to the best conclusions and Im sure there is much room for improvement. Im quite certain ive even been deceived by some through my open mindedness. First time shame on you, second time shame on me..I believe most people are good and I tend to want to listen to those with experience in matters in which I haven't any. Especially if I am interested in learning those matters.
I wasn't complimenting you or anyone who's getting their feet wet in carpet cleaning industry.
I was simply stating that it's hard to wrap our minds around a multi truck operation while working a portable unit. All of us are trying to be a brainiacs, indulging on useful informations, so we can use these in years to come. I like to use as example thread from 2017 which deals with removing a turmeric stain from the carpeting. You might experience it sooner or later, but can learn today about the process. I hope that my reference to a brain functioning as a sponge doesn't come across as offensive now. Same reference applies to the underlayment, as padding has tendency to absorb liquid and retain it for prolonged period of time.
And now, we might peacefully return to the original topic....
 

Spazznout

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Yeah it's simple math
2,080 hours in a standard work year.

1,500 of those hours reasonably spent cleaning at average $100 an hour = $150,000 for the year.
I am NOT a big fan of the $100 dollar an hour number.
However if you are going to use that metrics, you need to recalculate in my opinion.
You should be targeting $100 an hour from the time you get to the shop to the time you leave the shop after a days work. So if you work from 8-5 a 9 hour day your goal should be 9 x $100 per hour = $900 in gross sales for the day.

Look up my posts from a few years back about business being Cumulative, NOT Linear.
100 dollars an hour metric is linear thinking.
In search bar go to advanced and search just my posts. Use search phrase "business is cumulative not linear."
 

OxiFreshGuy

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I agree with you Spazz but for simplicity purposes I used that rule. Essentially showing its easy to hit $150,000 with one truck.
 

Kevin Dumas

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I remember way back when I first started.
A good portal to portal number was $35 and sometimes never hit $20
I must be getting old.