True Chem Testing-Side by Side - Challenge
- Thread starter rob allen
- Start date
I did 3, well maintained, berber jobs today with both of the pl5's. It's not enough to say anything about, but they both performed exactly the same. I'm doing a couple ratnasties next week that are empty, so I'll have time to take some pics and do a better, more accurate review of both of them.
I couldn't take any pics, because these houses weren't empty, and I don't feel comfortable about asking my customers for permission to take pics inside their furnished homes
I couldn't take any pics, because these houses weren't empty, and I don't feel comfortable about asking my customers for permission to take pics inside their furnished homes
Likes:
admin and Scott W
@RobAllen I am new to the game as when I did this 20 years ago for ServiceMaster all chemicals were from their products and no variations were permitted. I am not up with most of the initials and abbreviations that all of you who have been here for awhile. I have been testing products in various configurations and researching here for information, but often find myself lost as I am trying to figure out what you and all of the lifers are referencing. A little help please!
- Apr 11, 2011
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@RobAllen I am new to the game as when I did this 20 years ago for ServiceMaster all chemicals were from their products and no variations were permitted. I am not up with most of the initials and abbreviations that all of you who have been here for awhile. I have been testing products in various configurations and researching here for information, but often find myself lost as I am trying to figure out what you and all of the lifers are referencing. A little help please
All you need now is preload as directed on label for carpet, boost it with a scoop or two of tilemaster if needs restoration, use tilemaster as directed for tile...
It's the prespray to end all presprays
All you need now is preload as directed on label for carpet, boost it with a scoop or two of tilemaster if needs restoration, use tilemaster as directed for tile...
It's the prespray to end all presprays
- Nov 13, 2008
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- Zac
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- Oct 7, 2008
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- Michael
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Hoping to have some testing this coming week. We were doing flood work all week, and now we're putting them back together. No cleaning this past week worth testing.
Likes:
rob allen and admin
The results are in on Preload5: Look at the pictures and see if you agree with me. There is no difference in performance. Both were diluted the same with no additives. I put total faith in both of them without any osr or citrus added. They both kicked ass. The dwell time was about 15 minutes.
1. The first pic is before I pre sprayed with Interlink on the left side and TMF on the right side.
2. The second pic is right after I pre sprayed. Can you see the line that I made going down the middle of the nasty? that is where it's separated.
3. The third pic is during the cleaning, before/after image.
4. The 4th pic is a close up of the work done
5. The 5th pic is after the whole room is done
There is no difference, other than the texture of the powder itself. It did an awesome job. Interlink is now my main supplier of chemicals with the combination of TMF pre sprays and Bridgepoint products
At the end of the job, I combined both pre sprays into one, and I look forward to using it on my job tomorrow morning.
1. The first pic is before I pre sprayed with Interlink on the left side and TMF on the right side.
2. The second pic is right after I pre sprayed. Can you see the line that I made going down the middle of the nasty? that is where it's separated.
3. The third pic is during the cleaning, before/after image.
4. The 4th pic is a close up of the work done
5. The 5th pic is after the whole room is done
There is no difference, other than the texture of the powder itself. It did an awesome job. Interlink is now my main supplier of chemicals with the combination of TMF pre sprays and Bridgepoint products
At the end of the job, I combined both pre sprays into one, and I look forward to using it on my job tomorrow morning.
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- Oct 7, 2008
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Well I managed to get one that was worth pics. (so far) Preload 5-Side by side TMF-Interlink
Residential 1 Bedrm apt. empty
Nylon fiber
Soil reg. dirt, red clay, grease from kitchen ground in. (protein stains-grease)
Soil level-Moderate to heavy
Hydroforce inline application
Mix per container instructions (nothing added) @220 degrees
5min dwell (was in a hurry/splash & dash)
No agitation ^^^^^^^^^
Truckmount (El D)
220 degrees
425psi
Rotovac'd
Clear water rinse-220 degrees
The fragrance was noticeable but not overwhelming. (the maint. crew came in and commented about the nice smell).
No difference in either product (see pic) left side from TMF, right side Interlink. (wear up top on right side at vinyl). Honestly the right side had more to deal with as it was the path way from the front door to the kitchen and hall, the left side they walked back an forth staring out the front window, but the kitchen grease carried out under the window as well.
For being in a hurry on this, I'll start with a 4 star out of 5 but need more testing, figures that I normally have some nastys every week until I receive samples. I really don't think theres a difference in the outcome between the two distys products. But to add preload5 on the van shelfs I need alittle more time with it. (maybe this week) I don't carry but 1-2 pre-sprays if I find something new that I like then the previous comes off the shelf, so maybe preload can take a place.....stay tuned.
Residential 1 Bedrm apt. empty
Nylon fiber
Soil reg. dirt, red clay, grease from kitchen ground in. (protein stains-grease)
Soil level-Moderate to heavy
Hydroforce inline application
Mix per container instructions (nothing added) @220 degrees
5min dwell (was in a hurry/splash & dash)
No agitation ^^^^^^^^^
Truckmount (El D)
220 degrees
425psi
Rotovac'd
Clear water rinse-220 degrees
The fragrance was noticeable but not overwhelming. (the maint. crew came in and commented about the nice smell).
No difference in either product (see pic) left side from TMF, right side Interlink. (wear up top on right side at vinyl). Honestly the right side had more to deal with as it was the path way from the front door to the kitchen and hall, the left side they walked back an forth staring out the front window, but the kitchen grease carried out under the window as well.
For being in a hurry on this, I'll start with a 4 star out of 5 but need more testing, figures that I normally have some nastys every week until I receive samples. I really don't think theres a difference in the outcome between the two distys products. But to add preload5 on the van shelfs I need alittle more time with it. (maybe this week) I don't carry but 1-2 pre-sprays if I find something new that I like then the previous comes off the shelf, so maybe preload can take a place.....stay tuned.
Likes:
rob allen and Scott W
So ive been using these chems on quite a few jobs now. I can honestly report there is no difference in performance between the versions that i can see. both PL5 and TM are working as good as ever.
Yes, the smell, and appearance are different between the two, as i posted already. But they both work the exact same. Ive tested them on several different carpet types and styles, and both natural and mad made tiles. food stains, dog stains, even a furniture stain were taken out by straight PL5. tilemaster is just tilemaster, no matter the version. it eats anything you put in its way
Yes, the smell, and appearance are different between the two, as i posted already. But they both work the exact same. Ive tested them on several different carpet types and styles, and both natural and mad made tiles. food stains, dog stains, even a furniture stain were taken out by straight PL5. tilemaster is just tilemaster, no matter the version. it eats anything you put in its way
Likes:
Suction Junkie
Many have debated that one chem works better than another. Before I get into that I want to tell you a story. I used to own a chain of vacuum cleaners stores before Walmart killed the market. Back then Eureka vacuum sold a unit to Sears. Sears changed the cover & sticker. Now clients came in when their Sears wore out I sold them the same Eureka. Almost all of them said the Sears cleaned better. But I knew better. Same amps,same fan,small motor yes same everything except the cover and sticker. But they insisted no matter what I told them. Then Consumer Guide comes out and rated them evenly. Who would have guessed that?
So my point is Side by Side testing is the only true way to test things and esp chemicals. Conclusions are usually based on "perceptions" and not reality. Yes there are some differences between competing products. Heat,concentration,uniquness and raw materials. However a larger impact is varying geographical soils,hardness of water,pre scrub tool,rotary,wand,fiber materials,dissimilar soils,carpet construction,equipment used and fluorochemical levels to name a few affect results.
So basically a formulator chooses his solvents,surfactants and builders to create his formulation. Over time he tweaks it and improves it. Very seldom does he go backwards if ever. However cleaners perception of the product changes and one or two times that it didn't seem to meet his expectations he throws it under the bus. Not fair. Tweaks are for the better not the worse. How do we know?
Side by side testing. The proof is in the pudding. The amount of difference cannot be shown in a few cleanings or a few cleaning situations. You must do at least 3-5 Side by Side comparisons in different cleaning situations over time. Yes one product may work better in one situation and the other better in another. However the overall Side by Side results in a best of 3-5 situations will determine the winner. You can't just set up at one house,one business or one carpet cleaning convention and determine a winner. That would be junk science just the CRI idiot testing. They take fake soil in fake conditions on new carpet with no pets,no people,no cooking,no oils and no traffic. Then some clown in a lab coat who knows squat about cleaning carpets runs the equipment over this fake situation as many times as the manufacturer says. The result? They rate a stupid rug doc over a beast truck mount. What a farce!
Sadly though,cleaners,the IICRC and others buy into it. Cleaner please (except TMF cleaners of course ),don't be so naive. Let me give you another example. Once a cleaner took a light duty pre spray like "Preload2". It would not clean heavy soiled carpets unless it was boosted with a product like Tilemaster. But on one occasion a guy had a restaurant where the previous cleaner left a ton of soapy residue. Well the light duty pre spray re-activated the previous product and the guy rinsed the carpet well. The carpet turned out like new. Now he thought it was the best thing since sliced bread but in reality it was not a heavy duty cleaner. His perception was altered but the reality different.
Another thing. Choice of application equipment,heat and dilution have an effect also. How so? Some use inline sprayers with varying dilution tips,or electric sprayers,or hand pump sprayers. All use varying size spray nozzles too. This has to be taken into account. Heat also plays a role. Some chems need more heat and some less to activate. Lastly many don't know this but over shaking a chemical mix can cause it to fall out of dilution and actually separate. Like a rug centrifuge separates water from a rug. So yes do shake but don't get stupid with it.
Lastly lets talk about geography. Every region has different or varying types of soils. What works in one area may not work in another area. Florida has sandy soils and Georgia has red clay soils. Sometimes even the best products have to be boosted a little to make up for this esp when you deal with garbage like poly's and oleo's. This doesn't even factor in cultural differences like cooking oils,body oils or as some do putting baby oil on the feet to name a few. See why it is so hard to find the perfect pre spray?
So what have we learned? Cleaners want a "nuke" kill it all pre spray. So we have tweaked our products several times and made them stronger,not weaker. This can be proven. We did Side by Side tests. How confident are we? Yes we moved the dilution upwards to accommodate for the nastiest situations. Perhaps we should mention that dilution can be cut in half for light to moderate soils. As mentioned in a another thread where a few complained that they thought a product of ours underperformed compared to our last formulation. We politely disagree and are willing to put it to the test. How?
We are sending 10 members whom ya'll have chosen to test products Side by Side. And we will reserve the next 2 posts to have 5 of each in each post. We will start with Tilemaster and Preload5. We will send each person a "test sheet" to record the results on. So let's watch as we develop a true testing. How so? Side by Side testing with a proper twist,over several different cleaning situations.
Let's get 'er done!
Rob
The chosen 10 are*;
Jaime Fabara (Locko)
David Reed
Todd the Cleaner (and Jeff Kondra since they work together)
Rob Mueller
Michael (Certified Cleaner)
Matt Wood
Jimmy Hitt
Tony Burke
Kevin M (Colorado Cleaner)
Katycarpetcleaning
Did I miss anyone? May take two more.
Rich Troia
*Submit all your shipping info to @Edwin Camacho via PM.
**Please request and use this testing form below. Email me or Ed and we will send you a copy to print out. It's simple and precise;
So my point is Side by Side testing is the only true way to test things and esp chemicals. Conclusions are usually based on "perceptions" and not reality. Yes there are some differences between competing products. Heat,concentration,uniquness and raw materials. However a larger impact is varying geographical soils,hardness of water,pre scrub tool,rotary,wand,fiber materials,dissimilar soils,carpet construction,equipment used and fluorochemical levels to name a few affect results.
So basically a formulator chooses his solvents,surfactants and builders to create his formulation. Over time he tweaks it and improves it. Very seldom does he go backwards if ever. However cleaners perception of the product changes and one or two times that it didn't seem to meet his expectations he throws it under the bus. Not fair. Tweaks are for the better not the worse. How do we know?
Side by side testing. The proof is in the pudding. The amount of difference cannot be shown in a few cleanings or a few cleaning situations. You must do at least 3-5 Side by Side comparisons in different cleaning situations over time. Yes one product may work better in one situation and the other better in another. However the overall Side by Side results in a best of 3-5 situations will determine the winner. You can't just set up at one house,one business or one carpet cleaning convention and determine a winner. That would be junk science just the CRI idiot testing. They take fake soil in fake conditions on new carpet with no pets,no people,no cooking,no oils and no traffic. Then some clown in a lab coat who knows squat about cleaning carpets runs the equipment over this fake situation as many times as the manufacturer says. The result? They rate a stupid rug doc over a beast truck mount. What a farce!
Sadly though,cleaners,the IICRC and others buy into it. Cleaner please (except TMF cleaners of course
),don't be so naive. Let me give you another example. Once a cleaner took a light duty pre spray like "Preload2". It would not clean heavy soiled carpets unless it was boosted with a product like Tilemaster. But on one occasion a guy had a restaurant where the previous cleaner left a ton of soapy residue. Well the light duty pre spray re-activated the previous product and the guy rinsed the carpet well. The carpet turned out like new. Now he thought it was the best thing since sliced bread but in reality it was not a heavy duty cleaner. His perception was altered but the reality different.Another thing. Choice of application equipment,heat and dilution have an effect also. How so? Some use inline sprayers with varying dilution tips,or electric sprayers,or hand pump sprayers. All use varying size spray nozzles too. This has to be taken into account. Heat also plays a role. Some chems need more heat and some less to activate. Lastly many don't know this but over shaking a chemical mix can cause it to fall out of dilution and actually separate. Like a rug centrifuge separates water from a rug. So yes do shake but don't get stupid with it.
Lastly lets talk about geography. Every region has different or varying types of soils. What works in one area may not work in another area. Florida has sandy soils and Georgia has red clay soils. Sometimes even the best products have to be boosted a little to make up for this esp when you deal with garbage like poly's and oleo's. This doesn't even factor in cultural differences like cooking oils,body oils or as some do putting baby oil on the feet to name a few. See why it is so hard to find the perfect pre spray?
So what have we learned? Cleaners want a "nuke" kill it all pre spray. So we have tweaked our products several times and made them stronger,not weaker. This can be proven. We did Side by Side tests. How confident are we? Yes we moved the dilution upwards to accommodate for the nastiest situations. Perhaps we should mention that dilution can be cut in half for light to moderate soils. As mentioned in a another thread where a few complained that they thought a product of ours underperformed compared to our last formulation. We politely disagree and are willing to put it to the test. How?
We are sending 10 members whom ya'll have chosen to test products Side by Side. And we will reserve the next 2 posts to have 5 of each in each post. We will start with Tilemaster and Preload5. We will send each person a "test sheet" to record the results on. So let's watch as we develop a true testing. How so? Side by Side testing with a proper twist,over several different cleaning situations.
Let's get 'er done!
Rob
The chosen 10 are*;
Jaime Fabara (Locko)
David Reed
Todd the Cleaner (and Jeff Kondra since they work together)
Rob Mueller
Michael (Certified Cleaner)
Matt Wood
Jimmy Hitt
Tony Burke
Kevin M (Colorado Cleaner)
Katycarpetcleaning
Did I miss anyone? May take two more.
Rich Troia
*Submit all your shipping info to @Edwin Camacho via PM.
**Please request and use this testing form below. Email me or Ed and we will send you a copy to print out. It's simple and precise;
- May 9, 2013
- 647
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- Real Name
- Daniel Provorse
- Business Location
- United States
I used to use Enzall for all my carpet cleaning. What converted me to bio break was the fact that bio break has removed multiple coffee stains and other stuff that I noticed enzall did not. Though it's really good stuff. I find bio break (w/ citrisolv)
Likes:
Scott W and dirtsucker
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