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Top 50 prespray comparison test

rob allen

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I think sometimes education can get in the way of real world solutions to problems. Personally, I don't give a s--- about the chemistry of the products I use. I don't think most of us here do. Who needs a full time study on the interaction of presprays and rinses. All I care about is which product does a better job cleaning carpets. If Rob does a test of presprays, I for one trust his common sense to conduct the test in such a way as to fairly compare dozens of products. I'll leave the details to the chemists. That being said, if TMF's products finish 1-2-3, I may be a little skeptical. Thanks for taking the time Rob.
Would it be ok if they finish 1,2,3, and 5?

All kidding aside, thank you.
 

rob allen

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Some are so "educated" they fail to see we are more in the "appearance" business than the "cleaning" business. People want clean, but they want appearance more. That is why they call in the first place, because the carpets "look" dirty, not because they are "dirty".
 

OldCarpetVet

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I think sometimes education can get in the way of real world solutions to problems. Personally, I don't give a s--- about the chemistry of the products I use. I don't think most of us here do. Who needs a full time study on the interaction of presprays and rinses. All I care about is which product does a better job cleaning carpets. If Rob does a test of presprays, I for one trust his common sense to conduct the test in such a way as to fairly compare dozens of products. I'll leave the details to the chemists. That being said, if TMF's products finish 1-2-3, I may be a little skeptical. Thanks for taking the time Rob.

I agree....I think most of us feel that way towards the products we use and try. We, as professional carpet cleaners trust in the professional chemists enough for us to TRY their product at least once. And we being the REAL WORLD PROFESSIONAL CARPET CLEANERS will know in a New York minute whether or not the professional chemists products are crap, or the cats meow. Observation is the key and in more ways than one.
 
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zigdog

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What problem is Rob trying to solve here? It seems to me that he wants to know which prespray cleans carpet best...simple. You put it on dirty carpet and compare it to other presprays and whatever comes cleanest is the best in most circumstances.

Of course no one prespray is going to be the best in every single circumstance that you will come across. Anyone with common sense and some experience knows that. But it gives us a starting point, doesn't it? I'm happy with my choice of chemicals because they perform well, but if I am curious about a different product I can't just go to Amazon.com and look at the ratings. What Rob is doing is comparable for me.

And no, I don't think that knowledge of the subject matter makes you less likely to solve a problem but I do think that knowledge by itself, without practical application, is completely useless. I'll put Rob or any other carpet cleaner on this forum up against the lead chemist for Dupont in a contest to clean a rat nasty Chinese restaurant and my money will be on the guy with practical experience every time. Leave him alone to come up with his own findings and don't condescend just because you have an education and a strong interest in the chemistry of the solutions. Not everybody cares as much as you do. I'm not trying to start a fight with you, its just the way it is.

What Rob is doing is of interest to me and, I'm sure, many other carpet cleaners on this forum. That's all I'm trying to say.
 

OldCarpetVet

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Some are so "educated" they fail to see we are more in the "appearance" business than the "cleaning" business. People want clean, but they want appearance more. That is why they call in the first place, because the carpets "look" dirty, not because they are dirty.

Correct. And fewer still understand the true benefit of MAINTAINING THE BEAUTY.

I tell all of my customers this.....If You Want To Keep Your New Carpets, Rugs, Upholstery, Draperies, etc. Looking Like New Forever You Must Clean Them BEFORE You See The Dirt. That's it in a nutshell.
That is what I call Maintaining The Beauty. Some heed, others don't.

When friends found out how old our carpets and fabrics were (up in NY) they didn't believe me. Everything we owned looked either new, or 1 to 2 years old.

My carpets were 15 years old.
My parsons chairs were 22 years old.
My recliner chair was 14 years old.
My leather sectional sofa was 28 years old.

And they all looked new, or close to new simply because I cleaned them BEFORE we could see the dirt. So simple.

It's more about soil control than soil removal.
 
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jtsunbrite

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Some are so "educated" they fail to see we are more in the "appearance" business than the "cleaning" business. People want clean, but they want appearance more. That is why they call in the first place, because the carpets "look" dirty, not because they are dirty.
That is 100% true,,, Most of my realtors don't care how clean it is they only care that it looks good to potential buyers or renters.
 

jtsunbrite

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I had someone contact me with a brilliant idea for testing. I will do a second test as soon as I get all the 50 products. I'm at 39 products for the preliminary tests.
I am sending you some stuff to test tomorrow, making a run to Namco in the morning ill get something to send you.
 
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LookNGood

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What problem is Rob trying to solve here? It seems to me that he wants to know which prespray cleans carpet best...simple. You put it on dirty carpet and compare it to other presprays and whatever comes cleanest is the best in most circumstances.

Of course no one prespray is going to be the best in every single circumstance that you will come across. Anyone with common sense and some experience knows that. But it gives us a starting point, doesn't it? I'm happy with my choice of chemicals because they perform well, but if I am curious about a different product I can't just go to Amazon.com and look at the ratings. What Rob is doing is comparable for me.

And no, I don't think that knowledge of the subject matter makes you less likely to solve a problem but I do think that knowledge by itself, without practical application, is completely useless. I'll put Rob or any other carpet cleaner on this forum up against the lead chemist for Dupont in a contest to clean a rat nasty Chinese restaurant and my money will be on the guy with practical experience every time. Leave him alone to come up with his own findings and don't condescend just because you have an education and a strong interest in the chemistry of the solutions. Not everybody cares as much as you do. I'm not trying to start a fight with you, its just the way it is.

What Rob is doing is of interest to me and, I'm sure, many other carpet cleaners on this forum. That's all I'm trying to say.
It's not condescension, it's trying to protect people from false information that is borderline slanderous. Rob claims to be an industry leader and has a training school. It is his responsibility to perform his testing properly.

It's also quite comical for someone (Rob) to be so critical of "education" when he runs a school...
 

LookNGood

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Some are so "educated" they fail to see we are more in the "appearance" business than the "cleaning" business. People want clean, but they want appearance more. That is why they call in the first place, because the carpets "look" dirty, not because they are "dirty".
Rob you are not in the appearance business, you are in the cleaning business. People call you to clean carpet.

Chris Howell is in the appearance business. People call chris because they want their carpet to look better, or different.

But there is no money in carpet dyeing, but wait you offer a dyeing course.

But wait "education" is bad, but you run a school...

You need to get your story straight.
 

zigdog

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It's not condescension, it's trying to protect people from false information that is borderline slanderous. Rob claims to be an industry leader and has a training school. It is his responsibility to perform his testing properly.

It's also quite comical for someone (Rob) to be so critical of "education" when he runs a school...
Right, a school that teaches anyone with an interest how to start and better run a carpet cleaning business...not a chemistry class.

I for one don't need your protection. I am intelligent and able enough to draw my own conclusions. It is not slanderous (or even borderline slanderous) to honestly report your findings is it? If Rob tests each prespray using the same hard or soft water on the same carpet, with the same soil, using the same rinse, and reports the results, isn't that worth at least something? What else would you have him do? If there are clear differences in appearance isn't that worth reporting? How would you suggest that the bulk of us guys out here get the type of information that Rob is trying to provide?

Looking Good, I do understand what you are saying but I have to ask why you are so critical of someone who spends his own time and money to attempt to enlighten interested parties about his findings. Instead, why not start your own forum? Do your own tests? I'm being serious here, I'm not trying to be contentious. If you see a problem with the results of a test, prove it wrong! When you can do that, I'm a believer. But until you can and do you are just a guy spouting off theories. Theories maybe or may not be valuable. But I can tell you one thing for sure, on their own they don't get carpets clean.
 

rob allen

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Rob you are not in the appearance business, you are in the cleaning business. People call you to clean carpet.

Chris Howell is in the appearance business. People call chris because they want their carpet to look better, or different.

But there is no money in carpet dyeing, but wait you offer a dyeing course.

But wait "education" is bad, but you run a school...

You need to get your story straight.
I have left you alone in this thread because when I am trolled I don't usually address it. So if anyone is becoming slanderous it is you. Why I don't know or even care at this point. I stand by my appearance statement. I run a million dollar cleaning business and have my pulse on what my clients want. I also know what cleaners want. Products that make carpets look great. That's what I will continue to test for regardless of skeptics.


My statements about school is that present schools are dated and out of touch with cleaners because they have become too smart for their own britches. You seem to have fallen in that category. Therefore I started my own based on book knowledge, common sense and my 35 years experience in the field.


And as far as carpet dye, I stand by my statement that it is a dying business as long as it is becoming saturated with "get rich characters" overselling and over populating the market. Add to it the last industry report is that 90% carpets being pumped out of the mills is polyester and olefin...carpets that are not dye-able.


As far as offering an inexpensive dye course it only makes sense to offer a 300.00 comprehensive online class. Wouldn't this make sense before anyone who is going to invest 3k and lose a week taking a dye in the sky class that promises untold riches? So then why not test the waters with an easy to understand, re-viewable at their own leisure, taught by a 3rd generation dye person who has more knowledge and dyes than anyone in the industry?

This way the person can make an educated decision to see if they possess the ability, have the desire or just want a "foundation" to avoid walking into an on hands class with a strong understanding instead walking in blindly. Just makes sense, common sense.




There are people who talk and those that do. I am of the latter. I feel you wanted a school but I made a school and all this venom emanates from that fact. If you don't like my testing then get off your ass, locate and buy all 60 competing products, take your valuable time to test them all in several different scenarios and then come back to this thread. In the meantime, I'm doing while your talking.


Good day!
 

LookNGood

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I have left you alone in this thread because when I am trolled I don't usually address it. So if anyone is becoming slanderous it is you. Why I don't know or even care at this point. I stand by my appearance statement. I run a million dollar cleaning business and have my pulse on what my clients want. I also know what cleaners want. Products that make carpets look great. That's what I will continue to test for regardless of skeptics.


My statements about school is that present schools are dated and out of touch with cleaners because they have become too smart for their own britches. You seem to have fallen in that category. Therefore I started my own based on book knowledge, common sense and my 35 years experience in the field.


And as far as carpet dye, I stand by my statement that it is a dying business as long as it is becoming saturated with "get rich characters" overselling and over populating the market. Add to it the last industry report is that 90% carpets being pumped out of the mills is polyester and olefin...carpets that are not dye-able.


As far as offering an inexpensive dye course it only makes sense to offer a 300.00 comprehensive online class. Wouldn't this make sense before anyone who is going to invest 3k and lose a week taking a dye in the sky class that promises untold riches? So then why not test the waters with an easy to understand, re-viewable at their own leisure, taught by a 3rd generation dye person who has more knowledge and dyes than anyone in the industry?

This way the person can make an educated decision to see if they possess the ability, have the desire or just want a "foundation" to avoid walking into an on hands class with a strong understanding instead walking in blindly. Just makes sense, common sense.




There are people who talk and those that do. I am of the latter. I feel you wanted a school but I made a school and all this venom emanates from that fact. If you don't like my testing then get off your ass, locate and buy all 60 competing products, take your valuable time to test them all in several different scenarios and then come back to this thread. In the meantime, I'm doing while your talking.


Good day!
Did your wife write that?
 

zigdog

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I have left you alone in this thread because when I am trolled I don't usually address it. So if anyone is becoming slanderous it is you. Why I don't know or even care at this point. I stand by my appearance statement. I run a million dollar cleaning business and have my pulse on what my clients want. I also know what cleaners want. Products that make carpets look great. That's what I will continue to test for regardless of skeptics.


My statements about school is that present schools are dated and out of touch with cleaners because they have become too smart for their own britches. You seem to have fallen in that category. Therefore I started my own based on book knowledge, common sense and my 35 years experience in the field.


And as far as carpet dye, I stand by my statement that it is a dying business as long as it is becoming saturated with "get rich characters" overselling and over populating the market. Add to it the last industry report is that 90% carpets being pumped out of the mills is polyester and olefin...carpets that are not dye-able.


As far as offering an inexpensive dye course it only makes sense to offer a 300.00 comprehensive online class. Wouldn't this make sense before anyone who is going to invest 3k and lose a week taking a dye in the sky class that promises untold riches? So then why not test the waters with an easy to understand, re-viewable at their own leisure, taught by a 3rd generation dye person who has more knowledge and dyes than anyone in the industry?

This way the person can make an educated decision to see if they possess the ability, have the desire or just want a "foundation" to avoid walking into an on hands class with a strong understanding instead walking in blindly. Just makes sense, common sense.




There are people who talk and those that do. I am of the latter. I feel you wanted a school but I made a school and all this venom emanates from that fact. If you don't like my testing then get off your ass, locate and buy all 60 competing products, take your valuable time to test them all in several different scenarios and then come back to this thread. In the meantime, I'm doing while your talking.


Good day!
Well said Rob. I know that you don't need me to defend you, you are perfectly capable of defending yourself. But this guy pushed my buttons. I am on the side of the guy who puts his money where his mouth is, and does something, even if he might make a mistake in the process. That's how we learn after all. And now he has resorted to name calling. I could have predicted that. Glad to see you respond to this troll, and I'm out on this thread now.
 

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To be fair, the CRI has a standardized testing process for all sorts of presprays, but it includes a specific environment, specific measured soil loads before and after, and all sorts of other engineering controls that don't exist in the real world to test "performance". Thus the performance of a prespray under ideal conditions isn't always going to translate into similar performance under the conditions in which you guys find yourselves.

Yes, we who are on the chemistry side of things see it all through "ought to" glasses. We are given certain scientific parameters under which, all else being equal, Product A should outperform Product B. But life ain't always equal. And the only way to test that is in the field.