"The BIG Players in Electric Machines...."

Royal Man

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KNOCKOUT

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Yeah Terry! Move the "F" outta the way, what the "F" do you know anyways? I'm going to upgrade to the 8.4" on that link too, we can do this with out you Terry! Ohh, and Terry, if you just so happen to think you know something we need to know about vac motors, just send me the exact blue prints of your design with the Nordic, your findings through testing, and maybe I'll mention you in my thread about how I upgraded, and how easy it was without these so called ETM gurus. Gee, we are just talking about a few wires here and there, what's the big deal?
 

matt7

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Feb 16, 2011
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Not ALL other companies measure from the machine btw, these are the BALANCED NUMBERS that would be great to see in a machine that is to be run from the van...."at distance".

M5 Plus

I've a friend that uses this set-up, yet still insist on bringing the whole set-up inside with 25-50' of vacuum hose. (sets it up quite fast btw.)

I ask him..."WHY DO THAT WHEN YOU HAVE ALL THAT POWER TO RUN FROM THE VAN?" His answer...."because, insuring that I am leaving the minimum amount of water in the carpet is of the utmost importance to me and a set-up even as powerful as this one will not match or dry as fast as my gas powered TMs; leaving to much water in the carpet is one of the worst things a CC can do."

So, I'm thinking..."if the big numbers his set-up is not sufficient or at least close enough to TM performance/results...how could anything much less (in higher humidity areas that is.) in power/performance do it, especially with low LIFT numbers?"

So far, the above set-up is the most powerful I have witnessed and or seen in a Electric Carpet Cleaning Machine....and it's a portable. Yes, it has (2) more cords, which really is no problem for him, he used (1) outlet....that's it.

Just saying, if a machine is to be run from a van or "at distance", I think it is imperative that one is insuring maximum water extraction, something close to a TIME PROVEN GAS POWERED TM SET-UP.

I really THINK and/or it is just my opinion that what tends to happen with Fellas that do clean from the van/at distance with Electric equipment is this...maybe they have never used a gas powered TM, so they are clueless as to how much moisture is too much to be left in the carpet and/or an individual has spent Gas Powered TM prices on a Electric unit, then convince themselves that they are getting the right amount of moisture up, because the investment has already been made.

What would be interesting is to see the maker's of Electric Truck Mounts do a test using a moisture meter immediately after some carpet has been cleaned by both the unit they build and sell vs. an entry level gas powered TM, i.e., simultaneously have 1 person clean 1/2 a room of the carpet with the GTM and 1 person cleaning the other 1/2 of the room from the same distance (100') with the ETM....the ETM person matching the GTM person stroke for stroke. Test using the moisture meter right after the cleaning, then at 1-2-3-4 hours after. If the ETM comes close to the GTM...I will "forget about the numbers."

Also, the cost to build an Electric Powered machine is far less than that of even an entry-level gas powered TM. My feeling is that a product should be made with quality in mind...quality should be "standard equipment"; quality should not constitute what is in my opinion, "over-pricing" when it comes to the technoviking. especially when the numbers are the same, if not less than that of a Portable unit...again, this is just an opinion.

No offense...really; but when I called terri some time ago about the price of a tv and he told me the number, I was offended!

Andy, as far as your comment..."Now get the namco mini van going so you can start cleaning. You have to much time on your hands. I mean that in a nice way."

No, you don't mean that in a "nice way"....the comment would have never been made. You are perturbed, which is o.k., but, You should know and understand that not everybody will agree and or approve of what you may approve of and/or like. I have no problem with someone defending their opinion and or stance on things, but please; don't worry yourself about what I do with my time or try to hide how you really feel.

I have been cleaning 6-days a week the past 3-weeks and I'm very sore and very tired!!!!

I was the number one poster the past 2 months on WOC...I'm sure to the relief of many....that number has decreased exponentially the past 2.5-3 weeks!

Regards,

ac

I have been reading your posts for awhile now and i have come to a conclusion..... You really don't have a clue!
 

Jimsteam 1

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Aug 21, 2011
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Albert
You are a hard "Nut" to crack !! You PM me with your views of John L. and Mytee a month later your Advertising for him and your buddy in Florida.
Don't get me wrong Alex has a great set up for a TWO MAN CREW ; no way a 1 man can haul in all that equipment including 3 Airpaths etc. etc. . He also has been in biz for 15 yrs plus and has plenty on clientele. Not to many "Newbies" starting can afford to have an Tech working with them or the clientele he has.
Set your goal/sights on your Hurricane 6.6 . I believe most here are curious to see your results/opinions --Gauges or no gauges LOL.JIM
 

sabrpilot

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Albert
You are a hard "Nut" to crack !! You PM me with your views of John L. and Mytee a month later your Advertising for him and your buddy in Florida.
Don't get me wrong Alex has a great set up for a TWO MAN CREW ; no way a 1 man can haul in all that equipment including 3 Airpaths etc. etc. . He also has been in biz for 15 yrs plus and has plenty on clientele. Not to many "Newbies" starting can afford to have an Tech working with them or the clientele he has.
Set your goal/sights on your Hurricane 6.6 . I believe most here are curious to see your results/opinions --Gauges or no gauges LOL.JIM

He does not use air movers with this set up.
 

matt7

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U may b close to being correct....im am learning as much as I can, when I can.

I'm glad you are able to admitt it, that is the most important thing to know your shortcomings. If you don't mind my interjection here I would like to straighten up a few things and hopefully educate you on a few things.

I see you have started this thread to give info to newbies which is great, then you kinda went off track with personal opinions.

#1 An ETM can and will perform as good or better then a gas mount, i know because I own one that does (1hour or less dry times BTW even on long hose runs)

#2 Terry's ETM is worth $6-7K, in fact I think that is cheap myself! I build them as well (not for sale as yet) so I know exactly the kind of time and money that goes into building one and there is no way I would sell one that cheap! We are talking about a machine hand fabricated out of metal not some disposable hunk of plastic!

#3 Lift is not what "pulls the water out of the carpet", lift represents negative pressue, nothing moves at max lift. CFM is moving air, that is what pulls the water out and down the hose. However without lift any kind of rstriction would cause the CFM to drop to nothing and then it would not be able to move anything. Basically lift is what fights the restriction to maintain CFM, so lift helps CFM do it's job.

When you place your wand on the carpet all air movement stops for a few second till the system evacuates the air and builds a negative air pressure, this creates a demand for air to enter the system and thus air will now take the path of least resitence which is through the fibers of the carpet. If you place your wand on the carpet and feel the carpet directly around the base of it you will feel the air being pulled from the surface , down through the carpet and back up into the wand, this is what is removing the water from the carpet. Thus your statement about Terry's machine not having enough lift to remove the water from the carpet is untrue, 10 HG is actually plenty of lift to maintain enough CFM to remove water from the carpet.

There are other factors besides lift and CFM that will drasically effect the performance of a machine. So just because one machine has higher numbers then another does not automatically mean it better. Lift and CFM are generally measured in an empty system, everything changes when you start pulling water through that machine and the way it is laid out and the way the air and water travel through it has a big effect on that.

In regards to your friend's Mytee machine and his thoughts on hose runs. Your friend sounds like he is a good cleaner and it is always best to have the shortest possiable hose run, however you are comparing apples and oranges, the M5 is not a ETM, there are a lot of inefficenties in the design and layout of that machine, more vac motors don't always equal better performance.
 

sabrpilot

Albert Clark
Aug 6, 2011
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I'm glad you are able to admitt it, that is the most important thing to know your shortcomings. If you don't mind my interjection here I would like to straighten up a few things and hopefully educate you on a few things.

I see you have started this thread to give info to newbies which is great, then you kinda went off track with personal opinions.

#1 An ETM can and will perform as good or better then a gas mount, i know because I own one that does (1hour or less dry times BTW even on long hose runs)

#2 Terry's ETM is worth $6-7K, in fact I think that is cheap myself! I build them as well (not for sale as yet) so I know exactly the kind of time and money that goes into building one and there is no way I would sell one that cheap! We are talking about a machine hand fabricated out of metal not some disposable hunk of plastic!

#3 Lift is not what "pulls the water out of the carpet", lift represents negative pressue, nothing moves at max lift. CFM is moving air, that is what pulls the water out and down the hose. However without lift any kind of rstriction would cause the CFM to drop to nothing and then it would not be able to move anything. Basically lift is what fights the restriction to maintain CFM, so lift helps CFM do it's job.

When you place your wand on the carpet all air movement stops for a few second till the system evacuates the air and builds a negative air pressure, this creates a demand for air to enter the system and thus air will now take the path of least resitence which is through the fibers of the carpet. If you place your wand on the carpet and feel the carpet directly around the base of it you will feel the air being pulled from the surface , down through the carpet and back up into the wand, this is what is removing the water from the carpet. Thus your statement about Terry's machine not having enough lift to remove the water from the carpet is untrue, 10 HG is actually plenty of lift to maintain enough CFM to remove water from the carpet.

There are other factors besides lift and CFM that will drasically effect the performance of a machine. So just because one machine has higher numbers then another does not automatically mean it better. Lift and CFM are generally measured in an empty system, everything changes when you start pulling water through that machine and the way it is laid out and the way the air and water travel through it has a big effect on that.

In regards to your friend's Mytee machine and his thoughts on hose runs. Your friend sounds like he is a good cleaner and it is always best to have the shortest possiable hose run, however you are comparing apples and oranges, the M5 is not a ETM, there are a lot of inefficenties in the design and layout of that machine, more vac motors don't always equal better performance.

"I'm glad you are able to admitt it, that is the most important thing to know your shortcomings."

matt, when I said the comment "you may be right, but I'm learning as much as I can." I was trying to be "humble"/"nice"...to avoid further confrontation with you and your "think you know it all attitude". Then you go and make another typical "matt"/"tmf" comment like the one above (the first being the "you don't have a clue comment"...)

1. I have priced out 3 4x8 sheets 0f 1/8 and 3/16th aluminum, cost to pay a fabricator (welder.), a 2HT LG heater, vacuum gauge, amp meter, psi gauge, safety switches, 800-psi pump, apo, auto vacuum motor kill, 4-motors, hobbs meter, dwyer/auto solution metering system, auto foam-downer, vinyl wrap, wiring (12/3), weather proof receptacles (30-amp), 2-electric cord reels and a qualified tech's labor fee and the cost was well below 3000.00. Now, speaking in terms of canadian money, it may be a lot more. If you need, I can give you the phone number to all of the above places to price out the same items and fabricator/tech.

your "hour or less dry times", i believe if you were doing double passes, using air-movers and you have a very, very low humidity environment....but I seriously doubt you could match a small gas powered TM, "stroke for stroke" and match and/or beast it's dry times!

3. As far as "lift not pulling the water from the carpet"....I understand the example of when an in-take is completely sealed to a surface....nothing happens. you must add air-flow, example...put a vacuum hose over a quarter on a table and seal it over it....quarter stays in place. put the vacuum hose an inch or so over the quarter....does nothing, butplace the vacuum hose of the quarter, seal, then tilt the vacuum hose just a bit to add some air-flow....quarters gone. Wow, maybe I'm not clueless. Regardless of what you say or how you say it matt, cfms do not get it done by itself, nor does WL....we all know this, common knowledge.

I really do not feel that 11-hg is enough at 100', 125' and 200', that's all.

As far as the reference to the m5, I was not talking about the m5 alone, that's plain as day. Since you did not catch it the first time, I will repeat the statement and/or point I was trying to get across. The m5 (2 3-stages in parallel configuration with the air-23 (2 3-stages in a parallel configuration.) behind the m5, in series with the 2 exhaust ports on the m5 has some of the most powerful, well balanced numbers I have seen and IMO are far stronger than any etm I have seen or heard of to date. I said nothing about the quality in either the m5 or a etm made from metal.

As far as 4 motors not being better...prove that your 2 motor set-up is stronger than the m5 with the air-23 and that would be awesome!

Not here to argue with you and I certainly am not here to insult you, I HOPE that you will no longer do it as well matt. I have my opinions and share them on the board/forum for various reasons...a board/forum and on-line store that I have promoted and posted on religiously since joining.

Best Regards,

ac.

p.s. I Hope that you can prove me and a few others that I know wrong, if your machine is that bad-a_ _, it should be on the market, we did all agree on that!
 

sabrpilot

Albert Clark
Aug 6, 2011
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Albert
You are a hard "Nut" to crack !! You PM me with your views of John L. and Mytee a month later your Advertising for him and your buddy in Florida.
Don't get me wrong Alex has a great set up for a TWO MAN CREW ; no way a 1 man can haul in all that equipment including 3 Airpaths etc. etc. . He also has been in biz for 15 yrs plus and has plenty on clientele. Not to many "Newbies" starting can afford to have an Tech working with them or the clientele he has.
Set your goal/sights on your Hurricane 6.6 . I believe most here are curious to see your results/opinions --Gauges or no gauges LOL.JIM

jim,

Why try to "crack me"/"figure me out", better things to worry yourself about. As far as advertising for mytee....copy and paste something from the last 2-weeks where I have told anyone that they should buy one....please. When he set up the m5 with the air-hog....it took HIM not long at all. I and his tech were on the phone, when we finished, he was ready to clean! The performance of the set-up is what I like the most....NOT THE m5 or the air-hog, but the performance that the combo produced that day. Anyway, not here to spat with you Jim, just want to know where I have advertised for mytee recently.

Best Regards,

ac
 

sabrpilot

Albert Clark
Aug 6, 2011
930
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Real Name
albert clark
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United States
Albert
You are a hard "Nut" to crack !! You PM me with your views of John L. and Mytee a month later your Advertising for him and your buddy in Florida.
Don't get me wrong Alex has a great set up for a TWO MAN CREW ; no way a 1 man can haul in all that equipment including 3 Airpaths etc. etc. . He also has been in biz for 15 yrs plus and has plenty on clientele. Not to many "Newbies" starting can afford to have an Tech working with them or the clientele he has.
Set your goal/sights on your Hurricane 6.6 . I believe most here are curious to see your results/opinions --Gauges or no gauges LOL.JIM

eric, please remind me to continue making post promoting the forum and the on-line store 2-fold; also to continue recruiting new forum members twice as hard as I have been....one more thing, insuring that I make it a point not to miss "Welcoming" a single new member as they join. As I have certainly fallen short on these activities and doing a horrible job of it as of late....sorry for letting you down!

ac
 

Jeff Ellis 1

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Dec 25, 2009
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eric, please remind me to continue making post promoting the forum and the on-line store 2-fold; also to continue recruiting new forum members twice as hard as I have been....one more thing, insuring that I make it a point not to miss "Welcoming" a single new member as they join. As I have certainly fallen short on these activities and doing a horrible job of it as of late....sorry for letting you down!

ac
What the heck is this all about?
 

matt7

Well-Known Member
Feb 16, 2011
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Matthew Stephenson
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"I'm glad you are able to admitt it, that is the most important thing to know your shortcomings."

matt, when I said the comment "you may be right, but I'm learning as much as I can." I was trying to be "humble"/"nice"...to avoid further confrontation with you and your "think you know it all attitude". Then you go and make another typical "matt"/"tmf" comment like the one above (the first being the "you don't have a clue comment"...)

1. I have priced out 3 4x8 sheets 0f 1/8 and 3/16th aluminum, cost to pay a fabricator (welder.), a 2HT LG heater, vacuum gauge, amp meter, psi gauge, safety switches, 800-psi pump, apo, auto vacuum motor kill, 4-motors, hobbs meter, dwyer/auto solution metering system, auto foam-downer, vinyl wrap, wiring (12/3), weather proof receptacles (30-amp), 2-electric cord reels and a qualified tech's labor fee and the cost was well below 3000.00. Now, speaking in terms of canadian money, it may be a lot more. If you need, I can give you the phone number to all of the above places to price out the same items and fabricator/tech.

your "hour or less dry times", i believe if you were doing double passes, using air-movers and you have a very, very low humidity environment....but I seriously doubt you could match a small gas powered TM, "stroke for stroke" and match and/or beast it's dry times!

3. As far as "lift not pulling the water from the carpet"....I understand the example of when an in-take is completely sealed to a surface....nothing happens. you must add air-flow, example...put a vacuum hose over a quarter on a table and seal it over it....quarter stays in place. put the vacuum hose an inch or so over the quarter....does nothing, butplace the vacuum hose of the quarter, seal, then tilt the vacuum hose just a bit to add some air-flow....quarters gone. Wow, maybe I'm not clueless. Regardless of what you say or how you say it matt, cfms do not get it done by itself, nor does WL....we all know this, common knowledge.

I really do not feel that 11-hg is enough at 100', 125' and 200', that's all.

As far as the reference to the m5, I was not talking about the m5 alone, that's plain as day. Since you did not catch it the first time, I will repeat the statement and/or point I was trying to get across. The m5 (2 3-stages in parallel configuration with the air-23 (2 3-stages in a parallel configuration.) behind the m5, in series with the 2 exhaust ports on the m5 has some of the most powerful, well balanced numbers I have seen and IMO are far stronger than any etm I have seen or heard of to date. I said nothing about the quality in either the m5 or a etm made from metal.

As far as 4 motors not being better...prove that your 2 motor set-up is stronger than the m5 with the air-23 and that would be awesome!

Not here to argue with you and I certainly am not here to insult you, I HOPE that you will no longer do it as well matt. I have my opinions and share them on the board/forum for various reasons...a board/forum and on-line store that I have promoted and posted on religiously since joining.

Best Regards,

ac.

p.s. I Hope that you can prove me and a few others that I know wrong, if your machine is that bad-a_ _, it should be on the market, we did all agree on that!

My ETM eats small gas mounts for breakfast. I have had 1 hour dry times in 95% humidity, single dry stroke and no air movers using a 6 flow wand and lots of pre-spray. Have you personally even used a gas mount? Have you even used a ETM for that matter? I have used a TM with a 59 blower BTW so I know the power levels that a gas mount is capable of.

$3k wouldn't touch the machines I build (or Terry's machine for that matter), you obviously have never fabricated anything and obviously the fabricator who quoted you was a door knob. In Canada a welder fabricator of that capacity would charge $80-$100 per hour, I can't see it being that much less there unless you are hiring a less then skilled individual.

In any case most things retail for a bare min of 40% markup. Cars and car parts are often marked up 300%, motorcycles, ATV's and snowmobiles and their parts are often higher then 300% markup. You really think Terry is building his machines just for fun? I'm sure he would like to have some sort of profit over materials and labor costs.

Your accusing me of being arrogant but you are the one speaking in ignorance, I have been there and done that and all you did is talk about it.

Anyways I could go on all night here about some of the crap you write but it is so obvious that you have much more time on your hands then me so I will leave it at this. I was just hoping to interject for the benefit of any newbies reading so they wouldn't blindly follow your advice.

Take care,
Matt
 

locko-fabara

TMF Portable & VCT Specialist
Jul 14, 2008
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I still find weird when people say that lift dont move anything, that saying the cfm does everything.
I can tell this i tested for a long type the 2 types of configurations series and parallel.
eclipse and truckforce series and recoil and mytee 1003 dx parallel.
Always the series cleaned better, and was removing more sand from the carpet, also more stains was getting removed than the parallels.