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Some Time Less vaccum is better option.

CCWorks

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Isn’t cfm that is lost in the hose? Not so much water lift.

I agree you lose CFM in the hoses on long runs.

Water lift pulls CFMs through restrictions like long hose runs and small wand heads.

Ken could be saying you lose water lift on long hose runs due to the time it takes the CFMs to remove the air in the hose.

But he does not go in to a lot of real details or it was a typo

I beleve that water lift will always max out in time if there are no leaks when you have 100% seal, no matter hose lengths or CFMs.
 
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CCWorks

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Isn’t cfm that is lost in the hose? Not so much water lift.


This here is what I call, open flow, water lift time, the time it takes to reach max lift in normal carpet cleaing with wand.

If you lose CFM you lose max lift time. so I guess you can call it Water Lift Loss. Depends on your logic, understanding and math.

With a shot hose and high CFMs you get your 12 HGs almost in a instance.
If you have lost CFMs, it will take a lot longer to get your water lift back in normal carpet cleaning operation.
A large Vacuum Tank adds a lot of lift time, or the time it takes to suck the air out of the tank after you lift a wand and set it back down.


What I call Lift Time,
Ken calls it Rise Time

Vacuum Tank : Not too much restriction here. Most tanks have a 2" outlet on them that will allow 300-400 cfm of air flow to enter the tank in open flow(no hose attached).Most important consideration here is to size the tank right in relation to the blower to keep the rise time of the system to a reasonable value.

===============


Rob A. also tells cleaners in most of his videos I watch, that you lose water lift with long hose runs and wands.

Maybe Rob can explain that.
 
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OxiFreshGuy

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Yeah I feel like we overcomplicate things all the time, you clearly lose both CFM and Lift over a longer hose runs. I doubt TMs notice it much up to 200 ft (if you do theres a problem) so for residential there really isnt much to argue about.

Commercial on the other hand I can see it being hugely important to figure this out for those large jobs where you're always fighting the clock.
 

Anderson

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either way you cant ever get enough vacuum......

i talked to a couple of ditchwich vacuum truck dealers a few years ago about purchasing one of his units that has a diesel engine and 1000 CFM.....

I was gonna get my own tank so it would be more compact......
a little heavy but about the same as these large TRUCKMOUNTS....

This isnt totally A bad unit as these units are pretty compact and have there own pressure pump.
This is a deisel with 1000 CFM
weighs about 1000-1500 lbs and farelly compact as you would only purchase the front engine unit...but these dudes will run.....
 
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Fedri

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This article might have some truth but it doesn't make any sense mostly. It is all about the field test not numbers from devices. I can see a better result and work faster when I add a booster to my etm.
 

Fedri

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Can you give me an example of a Ventilated glide???
this wand has the ventilated glide, it is my favorite wand sorry tmf, sorry Tony and Tom your wands might be great but the mytee bentley has the best glide, those carpets dry in no time, left with very little moisture.
 

ACP

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Unless the carpet itself that your cleaning does not allow air to flow through it you likely wont reach max lift anyways regardless of the system.

Its not like closing off the end of your hose with your hand for a perfect seal most of the time.

It depends on the carpet type and even the pad underneath.

Very often you dont get a perfect seal regardless of using a glide or no glide, your pulling air str8 thru the backing of the carpet.

Wands like the devastator move a lot more air than small stock 12in basic wands that have been around forever. Mach 15s also move a lot more air.
 

CCWorks

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When Ken made these measurements and produced a report, it seems that truck mount systems where set at 12 HGs on them all.

So I have to guess that the TM manufactures understand that more HGs are good for carpet cleaning and most manufactures now building TM systems to run at 14 HGs.

A well built portable with 17 HGs is something to look into ( :) ) if you have hose runs under 150 foot.
 
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Bob Savage

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NO ONE ON THIS BOARD believes this 200 cfm limit through a wand stuff...
At least no one who is out in the field using these...
I personally have used 36 blowers 45, 47 with engines from 18hp-35hp...
I have hooked 2 TM up together
hooked a TM with a portable to add 300 cfm......
hooked 2 portables together.....=600 cfm

you could get 1000 cfm and still increase dry times
Shouldn't that last sentence say "decrease" dry times.
 
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Odin

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Yeah I feel like we overcomplicate things all the time, you clearly lose both CFM and Lift over a longer hose runs. I doubt TMs notice it much up to 200 ft (if you do theres a problem) so for residential there really isnt much to argue about.

Commercial on the other hand I can see it being hugely important to figure this out for those large jobs where you're always fighting the clock.

Yeah I feel like we overcomplicate things

Really??????
 

mrotto

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this is what I am wondering...

even if at the end of this discussion you come to an agreement on what works best, how does that affect the average Joe like me?

In other words, what are you really trying to say?
 

Anderson

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REMEMBER THE PIE you took in carpet cleaning class.....

when it comes down to it a TM or a portable is only 1/3 of the pie....

The other 2/3 is SCRUBBING and CHEMICALS...

After 20 years of trying to eliminate the scrubbing , no matter how powerful your TM is you just cant do it...at least not clean it right.

I am going back more and more to scrub every job...just makes cleaning easier , cleaner and better dry times= happier customers.
 

mrotto

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I am going back more and more to scrub every job...just makes cleaning easier , cleaner and better dry times= happier customers.
its been my point exactly. If you Scrub, then you can use less chems, less pressure and get better results and faster drying times.

If you do that, who cares about lift and CFM?
 
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Anderson

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trying to cut out part of the pie can actually take more time and have longer dry times and unhappy customers.

If you do a proper scrubbing you can cut your extracgting in half

TM guys try to skip scrubbing.....
Encapers skip extraction....gotta have both
 

Calgary Hog

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either way you cant ever get enough vacuum......

i talked to a couple of ditchwich vacuum truck dealers a few years ago about purchasing one of his units that has a diesel engine and 1000 CFM.....

I was gonna get my own tank so it would be more compact......
a little heavy but about the same as these large TRUCKMOUNTS....

This isnt totally A bad unit as these units are pretty compact and have there own pressure pump.
This is a deisel with 1000 CFM
weighs about 1000-1500 lbs and farelly compact as you would only purchase the front engine unit...but these dudes will run.....
Hi here in Calgary they are going electric I have seen couple of them driving around
 

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Jim Davisson

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its been my point exactly. If you Scrub, then you can use less chems, less pressure and get better results and faster drying times.

If you do that, who cares about lift and CFM?

It all matters to me. The right chems, scrub with a brush or pad depending on the situation and only where needed and follow with high flow, high lift extraction. It has proven to me over and over to be better and much faster. There is no way that I could go back to a stock TM or portable and actually be happy inside with the results. We can start at a million dollar home and go to a rental house and wrap up at a huge church on the same day, so being able to cover all the bases is a must. The equipment needs to be constantly maintained and in tip top shape and modified for maximum performance for us to not cut corners and still be very efficient with time on the job and dollars made per hour. Off the shelf equipment doesn't do that for us and is less profitable to use.
 

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its been my point exactly. If you Scrub, then you can use less chems, less pressure and get better results and faster drying times.

If you do that, who cares about lift and CFM?
I think you have to care about all three. Some think extreme water lift is the sole answer to vacuum performance. Its a balance of both lift and cfm.