So 3-3 stg vacs and 1 mytee vac booster= over 400 cfm's?

robbighead

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Wow, Right now I'm only gettin 94 cfm's & 140" of lift with one
7.2" 3 stage vac. 3-3 stage vacs and one mytee booster in the house should get over 400 cfm's in theory. right? Man, realizing the specs I have now and what it it could be has me excited!!! What an eye opener you guys have been to me, Thanks! ALOT!!!
 
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That is correct Rob. Actually it is even more than that if you use the right vac motors.

Use the new 3 stage motors that are in the 1005DX and you get this:

115 + 115 + 115 cfm = 345 cfm + Booster(115 cfm) = 460 cfm in open flow.

You will have as much cfm as out Titan Optima 460 Electric TM without spending the $4K it costs.:AddEmoticons0423:
 

bullets

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460 cfm in open air flow sounds nice but what is the real world figure? half that amount?
how is this system plumbed? what ID hose?
numbers drop off significantly when going from the test bench to real world.
 

Ed Valentine

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Rickie;

Interesting enough, I have found (sometimes with amazement) that the blowing of circuits from component over-load are not normally a consideration by the potential operator when shopping for equipment. Rarely ever comes up in the conversation. Longivity or ease of operation of their investment also seldom comes up either.

But, that's the way it goes and thanks to the Good Lord above that there are those in our great Industry whom are truly concerned with this factor, as you were in our very first conversation, because it pays great dividends as you have realized.

The very best to all;
Ed Valentine
"Smart-Designed" Concepts
 
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Four cords will give you a lot of suck. It will be easy to get two of the cords on one circuit. Blow baby circuit Blow.

Yes, as Ed Valentine pointed out, consideration must be given to the power set-up if you dont want to blow circuits. When you hook up 3 stage vac motors in parallel, the power requirement from each of them drops down to about 11 amps under load, so as long as you have an efficient pump(3 amps) you will not have a problem in this regaurd as 14 amp draw on the cord with the pump on it is done every day. The other 2 vac motors should get their own power cords as well, as a high cfm 3 stage will NOT drop under 11 amps no matter what you do. There are 3 stage motors that WILL drop under 10 amps each so you can do 2 motors on 1 cord, but if you use them understand your power (cfms) will be less as well.:AddEmoticons04233:
 

Gman

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Modified my Recoil to 3 3 stages with 2" plumbing all around
about 5yrs ago..:cool: Oh yea..:cool: Bring it on Mytee M5?
 

Chadly

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What about the Law of Physics?


You won't see 450 CFM at the end of your hose. If you would of Prochem, BlueLine, Butler, Powerclean would be buying vac motors from PowrFlite's China friends and making them in TM applications.

Heck even Nic would be doing it. It would be cheaper for him to buy 4 vac motors than all the fittings that he uses to build a TM.
 
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What about the Law of Physics?


You won't see 450 CFM at the end of your hose. If you would of Prochem, BlueLine, Butler, Powerclean would be buying vac motors from PowrFlite's China friends and making them in TM applications.

Heck even Nic would be doing it. It would be cheaper for him to buy 4 vac motors than all the fittings that he uses to build a TM.
No laws of physics are being broken here Chad:bigsmiley:

It is all how electrical motors are rated differently than the PD(Positive Displacement)blowers. THE PD blowers are rated under load, when they are actually producing lift.So a blower could be rated at 300 cfm at the blower under 10" HG. The electric motors on the other hand get rated at the highest cfm value when under NO Load. If you put them under load there cfm value always drops by 50% or more. That is because they have a greater "Slip Factor" than the PD blowers.What I am telling you is that a pair of motors rated at 200 cfm allows drop under load to less than 100 cfms. And a set of motors producing 400 cfms under open flow , no load conditions will drop to less than 200 cfms as well. :AddEmoticons04259:
 

bullets

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with all the talk of high cfm, amps, breaker blowing, etc..........

why cant manufacturers of portable carpet cleaning machines use 3 phase electric motors to turn a PD blower, and use an inverter so it runs on 110 or, come up with a 3 phase vacuum motors with built in inverters so they run on 110?
why not utilize motor controllers?
using this system, it eliminates capacitors and start up circuits.

i have air duct cleaning vacuums that use this. they run on one cord, never trip breakers, and produce up to 3000 cfm!
 
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with all the talk of high cfm, amps, breaker blowing, etc..........

why cant manufacturers of portable carpet cleaning machines use 3 phase electric motors to turn a PD blower, and use an inverter so it runs on 110 or, come up with a 3 phase vacuum motors with built in inverters so they run on 110?
why not utilize motor controllers?
using this system, it eliminates capacitors and start up circuits.

i have air duct cleaning vacuums that use this. they run on one cord, never trip breakers, and produce up to 3000 cfm!

Because of 2 words Bullets:

Money and weight:bigsmiley:
 

bullets

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money and weight?

how interesting................

4 vac eclipse weighs 160lbs costs $2500.00+

recoil xps weighs 100lbs costs $3200.00

us products weighs 200lbs costs $5000.00

mytee m12 weighs 185lbs costs $3000.00

truckforce weighs 200lbs costs $4000.00


shall i go on?

my numbers may be off a tad here and there but they're definately ball park!!


ed valentine had the right idea 20+yrs ago with his hybrid machine, where he mixed an electric vac motor along with a PD blower. he just didnt power it properly.

same with the workmaster electric truckmount, for those who remember that machine.
 

Jan Sullins

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positive displacement blowers?

You believe that it is better for a portable to be heavier? I don't think that is what I would want. Unless CA was leaving components out or buying the cheapest compontentry he could find.
The opposite is true however! Ed never puts cheap untested comonents. He uses tested Lamb Ametek vac motors because they have been tested for quality. Pumptec makes the best portable 500 psi pump available. He could have gone with the cheaper motor to drive the pump but he didn't he went with the more expensive AC motor.
Anybody who has used his equipment knows what I am saying is true! The Recoil 3 XPS is american made hand crafted in Ann Arbor Michigan USA.

You mentioned using positive displacement components. If Ed went back to that it would double the cost of his equipment. A
3MP Sutorbilt or 33 Roots would cost a fortune as well as a 2LP Sutorbilt. You also must have a 1 1/2HP very effecient motor to drive it.
 

Ed Valentine

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Many thanks to all above.

Jan, don't know if you remember or not, but that System (CA-4000 XPS) was written up in a book by Brian Kepka back in (approx) 1980 as being the first.

Actually, Chad is correct in his reference to: China.

My past (and limited thank the good lord above!) experience with field testing ---any electrical motors----from China have just been disasterous IMHO. They have proven to make the worst motors besides the Italian & Turkish motors that I have seen to date. They do not last very long, but definitely are cheap for the manufacturer to buy and sell his products "on price". No question there.

No, fortunately, I could not do this to someone who places his hard earn money on "real value" or bang for the buck, period!

We will continue to build using as many ----proven----US made components without testing on our (unsuspecting) customers! The gap now really widens.........

Thanks for the comments;
Ed Valentine
"Smart-Design" Systems
 

bullets

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no, i dont think a portable should be heavier. i simply pointed out to ken, who rebutted my reply above with "money and weight"!

on the other hand, if a portable weighed in at 300lbs, and was capable of being run from the work vehicle without the need to move it, what difference would the weight make?

this is my whole point! technology is available to build a porty the way i described above, so it does not need to be moved around.
yet, one would still have the benefit of moving it if need be!

as far as cost, some of the portables on the market today are quite costly so by eliminating the electric vac motors, and replacing them with a PD blower, the cost difference, as well as the weight difference will not be too too bad.
i for one would not hesitate to purchase a portable the way i described above.

the big vac motor manufacturers, ametek, domel, imperial, lighthouse, etc..........
over the years, they have dramatically improved on thier designs, and performance their motors can deliver.
they now need to improve on "stage vane", or blade design!
change the "pitch" in each of the stages!!
 

Chadly

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It isn't China's fault for building junk. Its OUR fault for demanding cheap. Vendor goes to a broker and says I have this bla bla bla...can you get me some cheap? How cheap? Reponse is....I only want to spend this amount. Ok, we can do that for you if you buy this many.

A friend of mine is a broker to Thailand and China. She finds us alot of things we buy at Target, JC Penny, Kolhs, etc. Its sad to see what she buys it for, ships it to her warehouse, then passes it off to Target for, then what Target sells it to us for. And you boys and girls throught there was a huge markup on GreenHorn wands.