Sapphire 570SS Truckmount vs. HydraMaster CDS | TruckMount Forums #1 Carpet Cleaning Forums

Sapphire 570SS Truckmount vs. HydraMaster CDS

Harry Mullett

Premium VIP
Dec 29, 2009
4,073
1,301
113
Idaho
Real Name
John Bunn
Business Location
United States
I have 2 570ss and I can tell you they are rock solid TM's. There are a few reasons I went this route versus a CDS direct drive.

1. Heat, the 570 produces a lot more heat than the CDS Salsa unit. The 570's with the temp set to 225, you bill burn your hands on the solution lines. This is also a plus when dual wanding.

2. Dual wanding. The 570 is more than capable of dual wanding up to 600 feet of hose pull. This means that as long as I stick within 600 feet total between both wands I am fine for vacuum.

3. The 570ss has a liquid cooled Kabota Engine. Not an air cooled unit, the means no head gasket issues like stated above with air cooled engines. If the engine is serviced properly, you can expect over 8000 hours of operation. My brother has a Kabota tractor with the same engine, hours on his tractor are over 10,000. These Japanese engines run forever.

4. Less fuel consumption than a direct drive.

5. Less ware and tear on vehicle engine.

6. Worst case scenario van dies. You can move 570 into another van for the cost of a van. The direct drive you will need to purchase a van and purchase the new direct drive parts to put the unit into another van. Direct drive system for the front end can run up to 4k.


The only advantage the direct drive has over a slide in is training tech when you have multitruck buisness. That isn't something I worry about, you put a truck log on the truck and things that got overlooked before get done.

Bob
I am really considering 570ss for my next TM purchase. Glad to hear you have liked your machines. How many hours do you have on your machines? How often do you dual wand? I am wanting a system that is truly dual wand capable. Probably will mostly use 250 - 300 ft of hose, one line at like 150ft the other at 100ft. But I want screaming vacuum that is not dependent on what the other tech is doing with the wand, whether it is on the carpet or not.
 

GRK STL

Well-Known Member
Jun 6, 2012
653
362
63
43
Real Name
Bob
Business Location
United States
I am really considering 570ss for my next TM purchase. Glad to hear you have liked your machines. How many hours do you have on your machines? How often do you dual wand? I am wanting a system that is truly dual wand capable. Probably will mostly use 250 - 300 ft of hose, one line at like 150ft the other at 100ft. But I want screaming vacuum that is not dependent on what the other tech is doing with the wand, whether it is on the carpet or not.
My first machine I purchased new and currently has roughly 1000 hours, the second machine I just purchased used with roughly 350 hours.

I also have to 870SS that are awesome also.

The reason why I chose them is support and none of the other big 3 companies is not designing anything new.
 

Harry Mullett

Premium VIP
Dec 29, 2009
4,073
1,301
113
Idaho
Real Name
John Bunn
Business Location
United States
My first machine I purchased new and currently has roughly 1000 hours, the second machine I just purchased used with roughly 350 hours.

I also have to 870SS that are awesome also.

The reason why I chose them is support and none of the other big 3 companies is not designing anything new.
Thanks. The 570 looks like a great system. I would like to be able to dual wand effectively with my next TM. Is the 570 capable, adequate or great at dual wanding?
 

GRK STL

Well-Known Member
Jun 6, 2012
653
362
63
43
Real Name
Bob
Business Location
United States
Thanks. The 570 looks like a great system. I would like to be able to dual wand effectively with my next TM. Is the 570 capable, adequate or great at dual wanding?
The answer is yes up to 600 feet total hose pull between both wands together. I am not sure how often you do large commercial locations, but dual wanding is the only way to make money. You get in and out and done in half the time.

I read stories on here all the time about how it takes some people 3 to 4 hours to clean a restaurant. I have built my commercial business around dual wanding. I am trying to find a couple pictures with the 570 dual wanding.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Harry Mullett

GRK STL

Well-Known Member
Jun 6, 2012
653
362
63
43
Real Name
Bob
Business Location
United States
These are all off my 570 dual wanding. I know you can dual wand with a CDS, but not consistant.





 
  • Like
Reactions: rob allen

Harry Mullett

Premium VIP
Dec 29, 2009
4,073
1,301
113
Idaho
Real Name
John Bunn
Business Location
United States
The answer is yes up to 600 feet total hose pull between both wands together. I am not sure how often you do large commercial locations, but dual wanding is the only way to make money. You get in and out and done in half the time.

I read stories on here all the time about how it takes some people 3 to 4 hours to clean a restaurant. I have built my commercial business around dual wanding. I am trying to find a couple pictures with the 570 dual wanding.
Nice photos. How much 2 1/2" hose you running? Sounds like you have things going great for youself!

Three things I want my next system to deliver on:
On board water supply.
Heat exchanger system that will maintain 200+ at the wand (Right now I use propane and would like to eliminate the need for fuel fired system)
True Dual wand capable.
 

GRK STL

Well-Known Member
Jun 6, 2012
653
362
63
43
Real Name
Bob
Business Location
United States
Nice photos. How much 2 1/2" hose you running? Sounds like you have things going great for youself!

Three things I want my next system to deliver on:
On board water supply.
Heat exchanger system that will maintain 200+ at the wand (Right now I use propane and would like to eliminate the need for fuel fired system)
True Dual wand capable.
The 570 has 2 ports on a manifold to the bottom right of the machine. 1 port is 2 inch and the other is a 2.5 inch. In the pictures you see above I only have 1 50 foot section of 2.5 hooked up and reduced to 2". That is all i owned at the time. Now we just put a reducer right on the machine and no longer use the 2.5" hose.

If anyone needs any 2.5" hose let me know, I have 10 sections of 2.5" that are 50' I want to get rid of.

I have also proved that you can triple wand off an 870SS. For some reason I cannot find the pictures for the job I triple wanded.

Bob
 
  • Like
Reactions: Harry Mullett

Dedicated

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2012
825
301
63
PA
www.1dedicated4u.com
Real Name
Shawn McCaulley
Business Location
United States
My Cleanco just extracted 23,000 sq. ft. Of standing water some areas just over 3" deep.

As someone above said "I see direct drives for sale with 150k miles and 6000 hours on unit".... That's a lot of carpet cleaning!


Sent from my iPhone using TMF Forums
 

jwargo1967

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2011
1,172
395
83
florida
Real Name
Joseph Wargo
Business Location
United States
My Cleanco just extracted 23,000 sq. ft. Of standing water some areas just over 3" deep.

As someone above said "I see direct drives for sale with 150k miles and 6000 hours on unit".... That's a lot of carpet cleaning!


Sent from my iPhone using TMF Forums
everything in life is a trade off to some extent.. each system has it's advantages and disadvantages.. just for me owning three slide ins prior to my CDs, even the most reliable of the three didn't come close to the reliability I have had with my CDs.
I am at 1700 hours and not one minute of downtime..
larger slide ins tend to get too complex which leads to issues.. CDs is so simple, pull the cowling and what do you have...?
a blower, a pump, and a driveshaft going to the clutch.. not tons of wires and crap all jammed together..
No heat and vibration from a small engine in close proximity to the components..
Heat system... super simple.. vans coolant is run through heat exchangers to heat cleaning water..
If you have a salsa, that heated water goes through basically a small blower heat exchanger to boost the heat some more..
that's it... VERY few components..
I run Mobil one in my van.. runs perfect. I bought my last two slide ins fearing the van stuff like a lot of guys do...
Never again..My boxxer 427 was so freaking hard to work on... coupler failed... $1300, press reg three times, exhaust system vibrated apart three times, pump failed three times, engine was starting to leak oil( it was a water cooled engine)
heat diverter would get out of adjustment and cause heat issues..
some guys were having debris and crusty gunk build up on the hx and it's a freaking headache to get that puppy out and it's pricy too..
if you need to triple wand, then you prob will want a slide in, but a 47 blower is a 47 blower whether it's in a CDs or a slide in.. . I actually think the suction is better on my CDs 4.8 than my boxxer 427, and they were the same size blower..if you want a 56 , then you need a different machine..
I'm sure the ss slide in is a sweet machine, just saying after owning three to one slide ins over CDs, I don't think I'll ever go back unless I get something at least engineered kinda like Ben does at amtex.. , where it's not a nightmare to get to stuff..
And again, if that has a bigger blower and that's what you need, it sounds like a good one.....



Sent from my iPad using TMF Forums mobile app
 

Dedicated

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2012
825
301
63
PA
www.1dedicated4u.com
Real Name
Shawn McCaulley
Business Location
United States
everything in life is a trade off to some extent.. each system has it's advantages and disadvantages.. just for me owning three slide ins prior to my CDs, even the most reliable of the three didn't come close to the reliability I have had with my CDs.
I am at 1700 hours and not one minute of downtime..
larger slide ins tend to get too complex which leads to issues.. CDs is so simple, pull the cowling and what do you have...?
a blower, a pump, and a driveshaft going to the clutch.. not tons of wires and crap all jammed together..
No heat and vibration from a small engine in close proximity to the components..
Heat system... super simple.. vans coolant is run through heat exchangers to heat cleaning water..
If you have a salsa, that heated water goes through basically a small blower heat exchanger to boost the heat some more..
that's it... VERY few components..
I run Mobil one in my van.. runs perfect. I bought my last two slide ins fearing the van stuff like a lot of guys do...
Never again..My boxxer 427 was so freaking hard to work on... coupler failed... $1300, press reg three times, exhaust system vibrated apart three times, pump failed three times, engine was starting to leak oil( it was a water cooled engine)
heat diverter would get out of adjustment and cause heat issues..
some guys were having debris and crusty gunk build up on the hx and it's a freaking headache to get that puppy out and it's pricy too..
if you need to triple wand, then you prob will want a slide in, but a 47 blower is a 47 blower whether it's in a CDs or a slide in.. . I actually think the suction is better on my CDs 4.8 than my boxxer 427, and they were the same size blower..if you want a 56 , then you need a different machine..
I'm sure the ss slide in is a sweet machine, just saying after owning three to one slide ins over CDs, I don't think I'll ever go back unless I get something at least engineered kinda like Ben does at amtex.. , where it's not a nightmare to get to stuff..
And again, if that has a bigger blower and that's what you need, it sounds like a good one.....

My Cleanco has a 56 blower and yes super simple to operate. Almost 7 years and only once was machine down, well twice I hit a deer and it was down a week for that.



Sent from my iPad using TMF Forums mobile app
 

jwargo1967

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2011
1,172
395
83
florida
Real Name
Joseph Wargo
Business Location
United States
The above post was a masterpiece.
Thanks! And I'm not trying to pee in anybody's cornflakes, just giving my experience since I've had both, and mostly slide ins.. and all those issues with my 427 happened within 1400 hours, then I sold it because of the well known problems with the engines in that unit.. I did not want to get stuck with a $4000 engine replacement, so I cut my losses and used the proceeds from my van and unit ($22000) to by my new CDs, and just had a payment on a new van..
I had a white magic commander prior to that, and it almost put me out of business, you really don't want me to list all the problems I had with that! holy crap!
Prochem blazer...Not a bad machine, but I sold it at like 800 hours and it had and few small issues by that point too..



Sent from my iPad using TMF Forums mobile app
 

AdmiralClean

Poster
Premium VIP
Mar 13, 2007
6,824
1,052
113
Alabama
For those of you having problems with these units, I know a guy who is a true master with these units. He's a user of this machine and a great mechanic. He's been of great help to me personally over the years. He reads here, but has not posted here for a long time. He knows of your problems, can help you and offers his help. If you want to speak with him, contact me privately.

I noticed after posting this was probably the wrong thread. I guess there may be another thread with problems.
 

jwfoulk

Member
Sep 29, 2014
55
12
8
41
Real Name
Justin Foulk
My first machine I purchased new and currently has roughly 1000 hours, the second machine I just purchased used with roughly 350 hours.

I also have to 870SS that are awesome also.

The reason why I chose them is support and none of the other big 3 companies is not designing anything new.
I'm looking at the 570 and the 870 for my next unit. I've been going back and forth between the 2. I run high flow and have a few 400 foot pulls. My concern is the 570 won't keep up and for the extra 5 grand am I just better getting the 870? Or do you think the 570 will be plenty? I don't want to be wishing 6 months in that I had bought the bigger unit.
 

fla guy

Well-Known Member
Mar 21, 2014
1,587
933
113
I'm looking at the 570 and the 870 for my next unit. I've been going back and forth between the 2. I run high flow and have a few 400 foot pulls. My concern is the 570 won't keep up and for the extra 5 grand am I just better getting the 870? Or do you think the 570 will be plenty? I don't want to be wishing 6 months in that I had bought the bigger unit.
Back a few years ago I used to clean target stores. We used prochem 405's and never had a problem with dry times running dual wands and 800 ft of hose. All about technique and chemicals. And that was much lower cfm than the units today.

I like the 570 because of the kubota motors. I have 2 blue waves now with that motor and never had a problem.

My 2 cents for what it is worth.