Sapphire 570SS Truckmount vs. HydraMaster CDS

mrcarpetcleaningco

New Member
Dec 9, 2013
2
2
1
42
Real Name
Brad Smith
New to the forum. Looking to buy new and wanting opinions.
Couple of questions
1. Was told these two are some of the best of their respective categories. Whadda ya think? Better suggestions?
2. I have no problem with working on a truckmount. Been using a Performer 405 for just shy of a million years, so I'm used to working on them. With that knowledge, throw out the "easier to work on" argument that goes with a CDS. Now that the easy response option has been taken away ;), which one is the better machine option?

Thanks in advance for the feedback!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Windy City Steam

jwargo1967

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2011
1,171
395
83
florida
Real Name
Joseph Wargo
Business Location
United States
I prefer the fact that I don't have to work on it.. (cds4.8)..1500 hours.. never down once..I owned three slide ins... my most reliable one was down several time at the same point.. the least reliable.. down every time I turned around
 
  • Like
Reactions: Windy City Steam

AdmiralClean

Poster
Premium VIP
Mar 13, 2007
6,824
1,052
113
Alabama
My problem with slide-in units are associated mainly with the engines. Namely, blown head gaskets. I've had Brigg's and Kohlers and both seem to blow head gaskets around every 1500 hours. I have 2500 hous on my current Kohler and replaced a head gasket at 1500 hours. I just noticed it's blowing oil out the head again this week.

I also do not like the heat, oil and lack of room in the van. I have, and have always owned, TCS units. I think they are the best guys to deal with.

I really want to go direct drive next time. TCS sells both Cleanco and the Sapphire Pro 1200. I want to buy from the, so it will be one of those two, probably.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Windy City Steam

jwargo1967

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2011
1,171
395
83
florida
Real Name
Joseph Wargo
Business Location
United States
There are pros and cons to both slide ins and direct drives, but having owned three slide ins and one CDs, I don't see ever buying another slide in.. the difference in reliability is off the charts.. a prochem blazer, a white magic commander , and a hydramaster CDs 4.8 salsa.. and all the things the previous oust mentions.. less heat in the truck, more room, easy maintenance, and no crappy lawn mower engines..
 
  • Like
Reactions: Windy City Steam

jwargo1967

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2011
1,171
395
83
florida
Real Name
Joseph Wargo
Business Location
United States
whoops, left off the Boxxer 427.. that machine actually caused me to get the CDs.. I knew of several guys that had to replace it $4000 engine.. one of them twice in the same year..I didn't want to get stuck with that, so I sold the whole van and unit for $22000 which basically bought my CDs, and I just financed the new van to put it in.... one of the best things I ever did
 
  • Like
Reactions: Windy City Steam

mrcarpetcleaningco

New Member
Dec 9, 2013
2
2
1
42
Real Name
Brad Smith
Wow, I'm actually very surprised at the one-sided responses! I truly expected a debate of some sort with some die-hards on each side of the fence. Thanks so much for everyone's responses so far. What I'm still missing though is for that one or two people that say something along the lines of "the performance of x machine is so much better because it has greater suction, hotter water, etc". because I've gotta be honest...I'd rather have something that's a little more maintenance that's superior in performance than to have a reliable unit that sucks like a shop vac. (Blown head gaskets, motors, etc excluded from that statement) any feedback with that?? Thanks again, very much appreciate the info!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Windy City Steam

Dedicated

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2012
824
300
63
PA
www.1dedicated4u.com
Real Name
Shawn McCaulley
Business Location
United States
As for performance the Cleanco has 570 CFM I've run as much as 500' of hose, but after 400' noticed a drop off in suction. Still got the job done just had to take a few extra dry strokes. As for heat it's 232 degrees,at the machine, I've never needed or wished I had more heat. The heat is always there, it just stays hot Period!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Windy City Steam

AdmiralClean

Poster
Premium VIP
Mar 13, 2007
6,824
1,052
113
Alabama
Admiral


Sent from my SPH-D710 using TMF Forums mobile app
I changed the first one myself. I think the parts were somewhere around $50. However, I never seemed to be able to get the valves adjusted correctly afterward, and took it back in to the shop to have them adjust the valves. I think it was $75 for that. The next time it happened, I just had them do the whole thing. It cost me $450.00, if I remember correctly, and my van was with them for one day. I thought that was quite high, but I gladly paid it to keep from doing it myself.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Windy City Steam

rob allen

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Sep 5, 2007
34,505
17,086
113
Va.
www.drynclean.com
Real Name
Robert Allen,Jr.
Business Location
United States
I am 99% sure our company will be going with direct drives from here on in. Not so sure on brand but all the top names are good.
 

Artie09

Premium VIP
Dec 17, 2012
5,253
1,446
113
33
Azusa , CA
Real Name
Arturo Ortiz jr.
Business Location
United States
I am 99% sure our company will be going with direct drives from here on in. Not so sure on brand but all the top names are good.
Why would you choose a direct drive over a slide in?
What are the advantages?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using TMF Forums mobile app
 

Harry Mullett

Premium VIP
Dec 29, 2009
4,073
1,301
113
Idaho
Real Name
John Bunn
Business Location
United States
I am leaning toward the 570 for my next TM purchase. I have always liked slide ins, I use trailers and like how they can be placed independent of the van engine.

I just can not wrap my head around one thing in the direct drive market-Running an expensive van engine/components to power a carpet cleaning system just doesn't make since to me. I see the vans for sale all the time with 150,000 miles and 6000 hours. The sellar always says it is in good shape. WTF that is a lot of use on the engine. With a slide in having a dedicated engine that can be replaced for a couple of thousand bucks it will put less wear on the van engine and extend the life of the van.

Also with the new van designs the direct drive systems may become obsolete because of the pto. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Windy City Steam

jwargo1967

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2011
1,171
395
83
florida
Real Name
Joseph Wargo
Business Location
United States
eventually, yes the van is going to need an engine, but it's only one to have issues with instead of two, and much more durable than a small engine.. you are using a 300 horse motor to turn a 25 hp load.. and besides oil leaks, head gaskets and other issues with small engines... all the vibration seems to cause premature failure of other components..
all I can say is my three slide ins had multiple issues by 1500 hours.. my CDs has never been down once.. Downtime is VERY costly, so even if I eventually need a new engine, so what? so will a slide in. my boxer 427 it was a $4000 engine.. I'm sure I can get my gm 4.8 rebuilt for that much or maybe a little more.
plus the heating system is so simple, you can't beat it.. van coolant provides 80% of the heat and the salsa( blower heater) provides the rest.. that's about all that is likely to ever need replaced, and it sits behind the driver seat and takes 15 min to remove..
 
  • Like
Reactions: Harry Mullett

bob_rugratz

Premium VIP
Sep 30, 2009
9,950
2,891
113
Real Name
bob middleton
Business Location
United States
I changed the first one myself. I think the parts were somewhere around $50. However, I never seemed to be able to get the valves adjusted correctly afterward, and took it back in to the shop to have them adjust the valves. I think it was $75 for that. The next time it happened, I just had them do the whole thing. It cost me $450.00, if I remember correctly, and my van was with them for one day. I thought that was quite high, but I gladly paid it to keep from doing it myself.
I here that. i was real lucky when I had my onan cause the valve seats would good bad (three times) and my friend would fix in his home shop. which he had 200k worth of equipment in. Well he lost everything in fire. no insurance. He has built back up some. He would do it for me. If not I still will pay cause i need exhaust stud drilled and new muffler. I think that is a little high, but maybe not. i will have to find out for myself. I have oil blowing and cant track it but it is around the heads for sure.
 

jwargo1967

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2011
1,171
395
83
florida
Real Name
Joseph Wargo
Business Location
United States
Wow, I'm actually very surprised at the one-sided responses! I truly expected a debate of some sort with some die-hards on each side of the fence. Thanks so much for everyone's responses so far. What I'm still missing though is for that one or two people that say something along the lines of "the performance of x machine is so much better because it has greater suction, hotter water, etc". because I've gotta be honest...I'd rather have something that's a little more maintenance that's superior in performance than to have a reliable unit that sucks like a shop vac. (Blown head gaskets, motors, etc excluded from that statement) any feedback with that?? Thanks again, very much appreciate the info!
I believe the performance of my CDs 4.8 with a salsa is equal to or slightly better than my boxer 427, a mid sized slide in..
suction is better on the CDs..
plenty of performance for most and at least as good as most slide ins, and it will maintain a higher volume of hot water than most..
The high end slide ins will have a higher top end for sure on heat, but who really needs more than a steady 215 to 220 anyway?
if you want bigger than a 4.7 blower, CDs doesn't go any bigger.. I think clean com may have a bigger blower on one of theirs, but my unit has awesome suction.
I just can't see living with downtime for a little more heat. as for suction if you actually have a need for that like super long hose runs or triple wand,then you'll want a bigger blower..


Sent from my iPad using TMF Forums mobile app
 

jwargo1967

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2011
1,171
395
83
florida
Real Name
Joseph Wargo
Business Location
United States
cleanco.. stupid ipad.. I have lived both sides of the fence.. more on the other than than the side I am on now.. I avoid direct drive for the common fears.. all I can say is I wish I had listened to my suppliers owner, Doug sooner!


Sent from my iPad using TMF Forums mobile app
 

GRK STL

Well-Known Member
Jun 6, 2012
653
362
63
43
Real Name
Bob
Business Location
United States
I have 2 570ss and I can tell you they are rock solid TM's. There are a few reasons I went this route versus a CDS direct drive.

1. Heat, the 570 produces a lot more heat than the CDS Salsa unit. The 570's with the temp set to 225, you bill burn your hands on the solution lines. This is also a plus when dual wanding.

2. Dual wanding. The 570 is more than capable of dual wanding up to 600 feet of hose pull. This means that as long as I stick within 600 feet total between both wands I am fine for vacuum.

3. The 570ss has a liquid cooled Kabota Engine. Not an air cooled unit, the means no head gasket issues like stated above with air cooled engines. If the engine is serviced properly, you can expect over 8000 hours of operation. My brother has a Kabota tractor with the same engine, hours on his tractor are over 10,000. These Japanese engines run forever.

4. Less fuel consumption than a direct drive.

5. Less ware and tear on vehicle engine.

6. Worst case scenario van dies. You can move 570 into another van for the cost of a van. The direct drive you will need to purchase a van and purchase the new direct drive parts to put the unit into another van. Direct drive system for the front end can run up to 4k.


The only advantage the direct drive has over a slide in is training tech when you have multitruck buisness. That isn't something I worry about, you put a truck log on the truck and things that got overlooked before get done.

Bob