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Saphire 454

stearnsclean

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I'm looking at buying a used saphire 454ss
It's in California and I'm in nh. I will have to fly out and drive it home so I want to be sure on the machine. It's mounted in a 2007 chevy 3500 van with 260k miles. Machine has 1800hrs.
Are they good machines?
They are asking $10900. Is that a good price?
My buddy just bought a new 570ss and it's a kick ass machine.
Was wondering how they compare?
I want a truck that can dual wand and keep heat. Clean tile and keep heat.
 

Nomad74

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Where in Cali is it? If it's near me I would be happy to check it out for you.
 

stearnsclean

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wow cali is a big place. I completely understand. Do you know anything about these machines and how they compare to the 570ss? on the sapphire website it looks like the 454 comes with a 35hp briggs engine. and the 570 has a kuboda. that's the only difference I see. also the 454 is not listed as a current model that is offered.
 

Nomad74

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wow cali is a big place. I completely understand. Do you know anything about these machines and how they compare to the 570ss? on the sapphire website it looks like the 454 comes with a 35hp briggs engine. and the 570 has a kuboda. that's the only difference I see. also the 454 is not listed as a current model that is offered.
I think there is a huge difference. The 454 is an air cooled engine and the 570 is water cooled. I don't own either but my buddy @See Spots Run has a 570 and the thing is a rock-star. I have heard that the 454 is problematic. The mechanic I talked to up in Oregon says that the 570's never come back, but the 454's are always in the shop. I believe the general thought is that Sapphire made their mistakes on the 454 but their other TM's are pretty solid. I personally would look for a 570 or 870 if Sapphire is the brand you are set on. Now, I am just one opinion out there, so please do your due diligence before laying a bunch of cash down.
 
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Ken Raddon

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That is too far to drive a van that has that many miles and that is to much to pay for the combo. At least in my opinion. And that machine? Not sure that is your dual wand dream come true machine.
 

Artie09

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I think I've seen online that 454 you are talking About.

I have a 454.

Every 250 hours you need to have the valves adjusted
Otherwise it's trouble.
I had 2 valves replaced because I didn't know this.

Now, everything is going smooth and as long as you maintain the mount per specifications , you will have no issues.
Heats up fast

Its a discontinued model but it does work well.
I can't complain much but if I had to do it again, I'd go with a water cooled engine.
 
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the organic cleaner

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Ya I'm starting to think in another direction. There are a couple bluelines online too that I'm considering. Everyone seems to want top dollar for used machines. There is a blueline close to me that has almost 5k hours and they are asking $12k
I'd go 1/2 of asking price for the Saphire, personally I'm no fan of there tms. Remember Cash is King!
 

Artie09

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I'd go 1/2 of asking price for the Saphire, personally I'm no fan of there tms. Remember Cash is King!
I doubt the seller would seriously consider this. He might get upset just by the offer but then again who knows.
The tm has 1800 hrs.
It should be running good , if they followed the maintenance.

I'll be in van Nuys tomorrow.

Which is like 15 minutes from Simi valley. If I can finish up , I can go look at it for you.
Not available any other day.
 
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stearnsclean

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Artie09 that would be great if you can!
Then I'll know what it is for sure. From there website it looks like they are a multi truck company. They run vortex trucks. Makes me wonder why they had this one. Haha!
It's being sold by jeannie carpet cleaning.
Let me know best way proceed. Pm me and I'll send you my number. Your 3 hours behind me....
 

seagrtj

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Alot has been said already but yes, the 454 was/can be a troublesome machine. At 1800hrs you are about at the half life of that engine, if you're lucky. The replacement engine is not cheap. ALL Briggs/Straton engines need valve adjustments, a good mechanic can do it in about 30 min. All that being said, Sapphire has solid support. There is no comparing the 454 and the 570. the kubota WG972 engine in the 570 is almost nuke proof. Now if you are only contemplating the 454 and the Blueline machine you spoke of... You really need to see if you are comparing apples to apples. Blueline had a couple decent machines and a couple flops. A Blueline champ or cobalt was the Yugo of the TM industry. And the larger Bluelines had problematic ECU issues. I'd stay away from the Bluelines.
 
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stearnsclean

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I am leaning towards those two because those two I have seen do great. Saphire 570 and bueline thermal wave 2 . I was tjinking the 454 would be similar. My buddy's blieline is now his backup and I use it too from time to time. He has had it since 300 hrs and it's at 3000 and he has had no major issues. those 3000 hours have mostly been dual wanding too. I am a little afraid of the 454 now with the comments. Adjusting valves I can do. I do it on my older kawasaki kz1000 motorcycles all the time. But I don't want an expensive engine.
Here is what I want.... I want a duel wand unit that can run with 200' hose on both wands and keep heat doing commercial carpet cleaning.
Right now I have a powerline manufactured at jcss in salem nh. I have a 4005 blower and a 25 horse kohler motor. In a house up to 150 feet I'm satisfied with my machine. The kerosine burner is kick ass until the coil leaks. Its steal and he cjarges $2k for a new one.It's beter at 100'or less. It's a very simple mechanical machine except the kerosene burner. The only problems I have are usually electrical with the burner or the coil just starts leaking without a freeze. Jcss says it's because I don't run his chem. But I do!! He says that the chemical "steam" coats the coil and if it's not it will wear out prematurely. I have had this coil for 4 years.
I plan on keeping this machine as a backup but would like to see if I could re engineer the vac plumbing.it's got a 2.5" opening at the blower that is reduced to 2 inch then a 90 with 2 inch ose going 2 feet to 2 inch on wast tank.the vac port for the hose connects to a 90 on the front of the was tank. I think i could improve my vac with replumbimg but would have to cut into the tank which I'm a little nervous to do.
 

Artie09

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I am leaning towards those two because those two I have seen do great. Saphire 570 and bueline thermal wave 2 . I was tjinking the 454 would be similar. My buddy's blieline is now his backup and I use it too from time to time. He has had it since 300 hrs and it's at 3000 and he has had no major issues. those 3000 hours have mostly been dual wanding too. I am a little afraid of the 454 now with the comments. Adjusting valves I can do. I do it on my older kawasaki kz1000 motorcycles all the time. But I don't want an expensive engine.
Here is what I want.... I want a duel wand unit that can run with 200' hose on both wands and keep heat doing commercial carpet cleaning.
Right now I have a powerline manufactured at jcss in salem nh. I have a 4005 blower and a 25 horse kohler motor. In a house up to 150 feet I'm satisfied with my machine. The kerosine burner is kick ass until the coil leaks. Its steal and he cjarges $2k for a new one.It's beter at 100'or less. It's a very simple mechanical machine except the kerosene burner. The only problems I have are usually electrical with the burner or the coil just starts leaking without a freeze. Jcss says it's because I don't run his chem. But I do!! He says that the chemical "steam" coats the coil and if it's not it will wear out prematurely. I have had this coil for 4 years.
I plan on keeping this machine as a backup but would like to see if I could re engineer the vac plumbing.it's got a 2.5" opening at the blower that is reduced to 2 inch then a 90 with 2 inch ose going 2 feet to 2 inch on wast tank.the vac port for the hose connects to a 90 on the front of the was tank. I think i could improve my vac with replumbimg but would have to cut into the tank which I'm a little nervous to do.
Go with the liquid cooled Kubota...

The 454 has it's issues but like I said, when you take care of it, it's awesome.

My 454 is better than every truck Mount I've used, except for the apex.

Other cleaners comment on how bad ass it is

@joecool