Prochem Powerburst

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Apr 29, 2017
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Sergio Faccenda
#1
Hi guy.,
Prochem powerburst is a safe prespray for oriental rug cleaning? I was doubtful becouse high ph
 

manbearpig

Active Member
Mar 17, 2017
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Mike Pollock
#2
Hi guy.,
Prochem powerburst is a safe prespray for oriental rug cleaning? I was doubtful becouse high ph
I’ve used powerburst for years on rugs with no issues. I switched to bio break with citrusolv, better and cheaper ( since it already has citrusolv in it) also no issues on rugs. However, if you are cleaning a very expensive delicate Chinese wool rug or a dye bleeder these may not be the first choice of pre spray
 
Apr 29, 2017
103
10
18
39
Real Name
Sergio Faccenda
#3
I’ve used powerburst for years on rugs with no issues. I switched to bio break with citrusolv, better and cheaper ( since it already has citrusolv in it) also no issues on rugs. However, if you are cleaning a very expensive delicate Chinese wool rug or a dye bleeder these may not be the first choice of pre spray
I live in Italy and there are not Bridgetpoint products in Europe. I cant test this bio break on my oriental rugs
 
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manbearpig

Active Member
Mar 17, 2017
189
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Mike Pollock
#4
Power burst is a great product. Try some TMF products as well. Ron had done a great job with his chemical line. Not sure if available in Italy or not.
 
Apr 29, 2017
103
10
18
39
Real Name
Sergio Faccenda
#5
Power burst is a great product. Try some TMF products as well. Ron had done a great job with his chemical line. Not sure if available in Italy or not.
There are not TMF products in Europe but power burst is in. Why many guys told me power burst in unsafe for wool and oriental rugs?
 

manbearpig

Active Member
Mar 17, 2017
189
113
43
Real Name
Mike Pollock
#6
Power burst is a great product. Try some TMF products as well. Ron had done a great job with his chemical line. Not sure if available in Italy or not.
There are not TMF products in Europe but power burst is in. Why many guys told me power burst in unsafe for wool and oriental rugs?
I used powerburst for 15 years with no issues. That being said, I always have used a machine with a 5009 blower as well. I never left much behind. Depending on what you are using to clean the rugs might dictate what you use for your prespray. If you are using a portable, you might go with something a bit milder. I would think you would be fine though. Just beware of super sensitive rugs
 
Apr 29, 2017
103
10
18
39
Real Name
Sergio Faccenda
#7
I used powerburst for 15 years with no issues. That being said, I always have used a machine with a 5009 blower as well. I never left much behind. Depending on what you are using to clean the rugs might dictate what you use for your prespray. If you are using a portable, you might go with something a bit milder. I would think you would be fine though. Just beware of super sensitive rugs
What do you think about these answers from another forum?

No, not at all.
Synthetics only.



Not only is the ph too high but enzymes break down protein, which is what wool is.
 

manbearpig

Active Member
Mar 17, 2017
189
113
43
Real Name
Mike Pollock
#8
I used powerburst for 15 years with no issues. That being said, I always have used a machine with a 5009 blower as well. I never left much behind. Depending on what you are using to clean the rugs might dictate what you use for your prespray. If you are using a portable, you might go with something a bit milder. I would think you would be fine though. Just beware of super sensitive rugs
What do you think about these answers from another forum?

No, not at all.
Synthetics only.



Not only is the ph too high but enzymes break down protein, which is what wool is.
Sounds like people that don’t know should shut the fudge up! Lol.
Seriously though if you are very new, take the time to get educated about rugs. I honestly dont know what the typical rugs in Italy are. In Southern California we have tons of synthetics and mass produced wool rugs with stable dyes. I NEVER had a problem with powerburst on anything. However, experience and knowledge is priceless.
 
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manbearpig

Active Member
Mar 17, 2017
189
113
43
Real Name
Mike Pollock
#9
I used powerburst for 15 years with no issues. That being said, I always have used a machine with a 5009 blower as well. I never left much behind. Depending on what you are using to clean the rugs might dictate what you use for your prespray. If you are using a portable, you might go with something a bit milder. I would think you would be fine though. Just beware of super sensitive rugs
What do you think about these answers from another forum?

No, not at all.
Synthetics only.



Not only is the ph too high but enzymes break down protein, which is what wool is.
Sounds like people that don’t know should shut the fudge up! Lol.
Seriously though if you are very new, take the time to get educated about rugs. I honestly dont know what the typical rugs in Italy are. In Southern California we have tons of synthetics and mass produced wool rugs with stable dyes. I NEVER had a problem with powerburst on anything. However, experience and knowledge is priceless.
Wow this thing changed my F bomb to fudge! Has political correctness overtaken TMF?
F . U . C . K. !!!
 

manbearpig

Active Member
Mar 17, 2017
189
113
43
Real Name
Mike Pollock
#10
I used powerburst for 15 years with no issues. That being said, I always have used a machine with a 5009 blower as well. I never left much behind. Depending on what you are using to clean the rugs might dictate what you use for your prespray. If you are using a portable, you might go with something a bit milder. I would think you would be fine though. Just beware of super sensitive rugs
What do you think about these answers from another forum?

No, not at all.
Synthetics only.



Not only is the ph too high but enzymes break down protein, which is what wool is.
Sounds like people that don’t know should shut the fudge up! Lol.
Seriously though if you are very new, take the time to get educated about rugs. I honestly dont know what the typical rugs in Italy are. In Southern California we have tons of synthetics and mass produced wool rugs with stable dyes. I NEVER had a problem with powerburst on anything. However, experience and knowledge is priceless.
Wow this thing changed my F bomb to fudge! Has political correctness overtaken TMF?
F . U . C . K. !!!
Aaaahhhhhh! There we go!
 

Tom Forsythe

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2006
290
436
63
Salt lake City, UT
#11
Wool Safe standards limit pH to around 8 on pre-sprays. Bio Break and Power Burst are higher than that limit. Those in the know may expand the pH range for special situations, but if you are starting then stay with pre-sprays around 8 pH. There should be plenty of pre-sprays in Europe to find a good option. Wool and oriental rugs are much more prevalent in Europe than the United States. Regulatory issue make it unprofitable to sell chemical into Europe at this time. Even more hoops to jump through than in the U.S., which is hard to believe.
 

Mama Fen

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Jul 18, 2012
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#12
Hi guy.,
Prochem powerburst is a safe prespray for oriental rug cleaning? I was doubtful becouse high ph

Some people use high-pH aggressive presprays on rugs and say that, as long as they rinse with an acid and bring the pH down after cleaning, they suffer no damage.

I prefer to stay on the safe side and not risk damage at all, lol. Many times the damage done to natural fibers, particularly wool, is done at the microscopic level and cannot be "seen" - but the end result, fraying or "furring" and felting of the material, caused by fiber breakdown, is all too evident over time.

If you have access to Prochem products but not Bridgepoint or TMF, I'd suggest you start with All Fiber Deep Clean from Prochem, it is wool safe and can be used with little to no bleed issues. Follow with All Fiber Rinse to be on the safer side. Some guys report success using Fine Fabric Prespray on rugs, but as I haven't done this personally I cannot recommend it.
 
Apr 29, 2017
103
10
18
39
Real Name
Sergio Faccenda
#13
Some people use high-pH aggressive presprays on rugs and say that, as long as they rinse with an acid and bring the pH down after cleaning, they suffer no damage.

I prefer to stay on the safe side and not risk damage at all, lol. Many times the damage done to natural fibers, particularly wool, is done at the microscopic level and cannot be "seen" - but the end result, fraying or "furring" and felting of the material, caused by fiber breakdown, is all too evident over time.

If you have access to Prochem products but not Bridgepoint or TMF, I'd suggest you start with All Fiber Deep Clean from Prochem, it is wool safe and can be used with little to no bleed issues. Follow with All Fiber Rinse to be on the safer side. Some guys report success using Fine Fabric Prespray on rugs, but as I haven't done this personally I cannot recommend it.
I often wash the wool oriental rugs with a high pH italian detergent (Kemika Determoket ph 10) and then the acid rinse. It has never happened to bleeding or browning. Obviously the washing is very quick so as not to give the bleeding time and also the acid rinse is very abundant so as not to leave detergent inside the carpet and avoid browning. That Prochem products doesn't arrive in Europe
 
Sep 2, 2013
4
2
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37
#14
Power butst absolutely kills wool fibres, it’s ph 12!!! If you are to use a Prochem product go for Pre-spray gold, ph 8 or similar and Woolsafe approved. Although not specialist rug product i have used prespray gold on fine wool handmade rugs many times with hteat results and no damage caused.

There is a company in the UK called World Of Clean that sells TMF products. Here is a link to their website:

Www.worldofclean.co.uk

I’m not sure if they ship out of UK though.

Also Chemspec do a specialsit rug shampoo product and there are loads of companies in Europe who sell their products.
 

Mama Fen

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Jul 18, 2012
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#15
I often wash the wool oriental rugs with a high pH italian detergent (Kemika Determoket ph 10) and then the acid rinse. It has never happened to bleeding or browning. Obviously the washing is very quick so as not to give the bleeding time and also the acid rinse is very abundant so as not to leave detergent inside the carpet and avoid browning. That Prochem products doesn't arrive in Europe
While you may not see browning or bleeding when using a high pH spray, you can indeed be doing serious damage to the fibers themselves. The cuticle, or outer shell of the wool fiber, has a wonderful ridged texture that allows the fibers to provide extreme warmth - but high pH sprays can break down this cuticle, making the fibers flaky and prone to breakage (like the hairs on our heads, which are built in a very similar way). Over time, the ridges of the fibers can "grip" one another, in a process called felting, and weakened strands will felt much more quickly than strong ones.

You can see the texture of wool in this picture, far left:



That lovely ridgy texture is what gives wool its unique properties. Damaging this texture may not be visible to the naked eye, but will show up in the long run as loss of integrity, felting/bunching, and shedding of fibers.
 

Scott W

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Feb 14, 2006
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#16
What do you think about these answers from another forum?

No, not at all.
Synthetics only.



Not only is the ph too high but enzymes break down protein, which is what wool is.

The high pH of Prochem Powerburst will damage the wool fiber. It will get the rugs clean. But the weakened fibers will break easier.

The time that the cleaning agent is in touch with the fibers is also an issue. Rinse it off quickly and thoroughly and the dmage is minimum, still damage but minimum. Might be OK for lower cost rugs, but could really hurt you if you have a rug expert and a high value rug.

Definitely use an acid rinse after using any high pH product on wool.

Better, yet to use a WoolSafe product. I know there are several WoolSafe products in England. I would check the WoolSafe website for products that are available in your area.
 
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Scott W

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Feb 14, 2006
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#17
Wow this thing changed my F bomb to fudge! Has political correctness overtaken TMF?
F . U . C . K. !!!
Not political correctness, just common decency.
 
Apr 29, 2017
103
10
18
39
Real Name
Sergio Faccenda
#18
Thank you all for the answers! I understand that I will not have to use a high pH detergent. The problem is however the following:
I have about 50 bottles of 1,31 gallons of a detergent with pH 11. How can I use them?
Could I help the use of these detergents with acetic acid?
 

Mama Fen

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Jul 18, 2012
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#20
Thank you all for the answers! I understand that I will not have to use a high pH detergent. The problem is however the following:
I have about 50 bottles of 1,31 gallons of a detergent with pH 11. How can I use them?
Could I help the use of these detergents with acetic acid?
Without knowing exactly what chemicals you're using, it's tough to say what you can mix with them. I'm guessing (and this is only a guess) that adding acetic acid, or any other acid, to them during the mixing process will have some unwanted and unexpected effects.
 
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