Prespray Temperature

Timothyscarpet

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Whats the relationship between temp of prespray at application and effectiveness of cleaning? Say between using HF in-line(hot hot) vs pump up or battery sprayer (hot tap water at best)? Any actual scientific answers would be helpful.
 

rob allen

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Whats the relationship between temp of prespray at application and effectiveness of cleaning? Say between using HF in-line(hot hot) vs pump up or battery sprayer (hot tap water at best)? Any actual scientific answers would be helpful.
Overheating prespray can cause separation, also atomization making it fall out fall out of dilution while fogging upward away from the carpet interface. Plus your inline sprayer (Hydroforce) will begin cavitation reducing the siphoning effect leading to severely reduced chemical uptake and watering down your prespray. All of this reduces or even halts effectiveness. Keep temps 150º or less when using a Hydroforce.

PS:Atomizing prespray is an inhalation hazard also as much of it rises directly into the air, then breathed in your lungs and penetrates quickly into small capillaries in your lungs then directly into your bloodstream. This is a major reason we make "safer" chemistry because cleaners are stubborn. They will overheat, over dilute and even use caustic prespray formulas. Not smart.
 

rob allen

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I would unscientifically say that by the time the solution hits the surface, it's pretty much room temp either way.
The advantage of HF is ease of use more than temperature delivery.
True @PistolPete but as my reply shows there is a point of diminishing returns.
 

Timothyscarpet

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I let go of my in-line for presprays, uses my precious fresh water and ties up my solution line, I came to this realization this winter when temps were top cold to just let my solution line sit for extended periods of time. With my multi sprayer I can go into the home and lay down prespray while my TM is heating and then run in solution line and start cleaning. It also allows my tech to work ahead on large jobs and put down prespray while the wand is still being used....anyways that is what brought up the question about the temp of my prespray mixture.
 
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MikeHawley14

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Whats the relationship between temp of prespray at application and effectiveness of cleaning? Say between using HF in-line(hot hot) vs pump up or battery sprayer (hot tap water at best)? Any actual scientific answers would be helpful.

I use a hot pre spray on tough traffic patterns sometimes if they didn’t pay for scrubbing. I get awesome tact when I pump spray the product down after vacuuming then set up pre spray with hudroforce and clean. It’s faster easier less spotting.
 

MikeHawley14

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I still use hydroforce because we are mostly doing 1 man jobs and its incredibly faster. But like rob said I don't run on high heat.

I have to stop and clean out some jobs my water box bypasses too much water. I’d rather spray then bring in vaccum and clean some restaurant work I’ve just sprayed hot to keep it moving oh well need auto dump in my life and electric reel.
 

mrotto

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I came to this realization this winter when temps were top cold to just let my solution line sit for extended periods of time.
I find that winter is no problem cleaning with a TM. True, setup and take down is a bit different so the hoses dont freeze but once you get hot water through the solution line, it wont freeze, even at a temperature at zero.
 

mrotto

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With my multi sprayer I can go into the home and lay down prespray while my TM is heating
ok I never tried using the Multisprayer for prespray but I would think that you would be forever mixing prespray during the day which would actually take longer than using a HDF.

While your TM is heating? Mine is to 180 in about 45 seconds and thats on low heat.
 

brian3180

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Whats the relationship between temp of prespray at application and effectiveness of cleaning? Say between using HF in-line(hot hot) vs pump up or battery sprayer (hot tap water at best)? Any actual scientific answers would be helpful.
I started with a HF and went to a pump up sprayer for several years and now I'm back using a HF. HF is so much better and faster. Use low psi and spray the whole house. Then bring in vacuum hoses and carpet will be primed to clean.
 

OxiFreshGuy

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ok I never tried using the Multisprayer for prespray but I would think that you would be forever mixing prespray during the day which would actually take longer than using a HDF.

While your TM is heating? Mine is to 180 in about 45 seconds and thats on low heat.

If you're a solo operator the hydroforce is much faster. If you are a two man team - the 3M Multisprayer is faster. In commercial jobs where I have a helper I have him mix up several separate containers of pre-spray and set them along the route of the carpet job so we can just switch out the jugs and keep going.

Whats funny is the last company I worked for before starting my own (I was brought on to help them figure out how to make their carpet jobs higher quality/faster) I used my techniques/methods on a massive Goodwill commercial carpet cleaning job.

We had 3 trucks there, they planned for 2 days of cleaning total. Between my partner and myself we cleaned half the facility the first night ourselves...including red stain removals.

A week later I was terminated. The head "sales manager" who worked for "the most prestigious carpet company in St.Louis" basically couldn't handle that I knew my shit better than he did.

So one size/strategy doesn't fit all. I do love using the 3M for applying pet urine treatments/scotchgard though since I don't have to run the TM for those.
 
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Tom Forsythe

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A scientific answer is a term called cloud point which relates to pre-sprays with non-ionic surfactants. At certain temperatures a cleaning solution will become cloudy. The temperature just before it clouds provides the best cleaning. When designing pre-sprays to be used with HF sprayer I aim for a cloud point of around 150 degrees F. As Rob said the HF does not work well above 180 degree F. As the solution hits air and the carpet it loses temperature. The chemical action will start at optimum temperature even though it goes quickly to 120 degree F. It is better to start at 180 degree F than 120 degree F for some pre-sprays to get that extra little kick.
 

MikeHawley14

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A scientific answer is a term called cloud point which relates to pre-sprays with non-ionic surfactants. At certain temperatures a cleaning solution will become cloudy. The temperature just before it clouds provides the best cleaning. When designing pre-sprays to be used with HF sprayer I aim for a cloud point of around 150 degrees F. As Rob said the HF does not work well above 180 degree F. As the solution hits air and the carpet it loses temperature. The chemical action will start at optimum temperature even though it goes quickly to 120 degree F. It is better to start at 180 degree F than 120 degree F for some pre-sprays to get that extra little kick.

Yeah but you can charge more if you do some VLM then HWE less gas
 

MikeHawley14

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Yeah but you can charge more if you do some VLM then HWE less gas

I never spray a few areas clean hook up again spray other areas that will make the other areas crunchy I’m thinking idk never tried it. Once I spray I’m cleaning the rest of the time. I think that’s what the question is about. Their techs are trying to go too fast
 

Timothyscarpet

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A scientific answer is a term called cloud point which relates to pre-sprays with non-ionic surfactants. At certain temperatures a cleaning solution will become cloudy. The temperature just before it clouds provides the best cleaning. When designing pre-sprays to be used with HF sprayer I aim for a cloud point of around 150 degrees F. As Rob said the HF does not work well above 180 degree F. As the solution hits air and the carpet it loses temperature. The chemical action will start at optimum temperature even though it goes quickly to 120 degree F. It is better to start at 180 degree F than 120 degree F for some pre-sprays to get that extra little kick.
@Tom Forsythe that is exactly what I was looking for, because since switching to a battery or pump up sprayer even with mixing at hot tap temps by the time it's applied it would be much cooler and therefore maybe not as effective? I'm going to switch back to my HF now and see if I notice a difference with effectiveness and efficiency. Thanks for the information
 

Timothyscarpet

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The initial question was asked because since switch from a HF application for prespray which produces consistent heat to a multi sprayer which is only as hot as you mix it up will you loose effectiveness in cleaning? Is a HF more or less efficient? That's a subjective question with subjective answers, is hotter prespray more effective? That is an objective question with objective answers which is what I was wondering about and I think Tom and Rob answered really well.
 

MikeHawley14

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The initial question was asked because since switch from a HF application for prespray which produces consistent heat to a multi sprayer which is only as hot as you mix it up will you loose effectiveness in cleaning? Is a HF more or less efficient? That's a subjective question with subjective answers, is hotter prespray more effective? That is an objective question with objective answers which is what I was wondering about and I think Tom and Rob answered really well.

Yeah if we can all have some simple jobs like that it be awesome. They did answer the question. Rob has talked about this many times proper inline spray techniques. Vacuum spray set up the vacuum hoses safety door and then clean.
 
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