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Pet urine stains

U. S. Vet.

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It’s been everyone’s experience to get a call back on a piss pond you miraculously managed to clean out only to discover it’s a new deposit ( UV 365 - 395 ). It’s important the client KNOWS the “never pisser“ • • • will.
 
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U. S. Vet.

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Good stuff. My experience is similar to your experience poverties the years.

I am starting to pickup about stains on nylon being most likely to remain. I think it just stands a chance at actually changing the color appearance of the fibers.
Urine (especially cat and lynx relatives), will, over time “shift” - chemically change color (dark: red, green, blue most vulnerable).
 

wandwizard

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I've said this a number of times, but I highly recommend keeping a moisture probe and using it for most urine jobs. UV is is great, but far from fool proof. I've seen too many cases where a home had virtually no stains that showed up under UV and I've been using UV since the mid 90's. I think it's a mistake to depend on that alone to locate the deposits because many times it will show absolutely NOTHING! If a customer has cleaned the carpet with a store machine or used any number of spot removers that can stop the UV dead in it's tracks. Actually I think I see this more often than not. It is EXTREMELY common IMHO. It's also true that even clearly visible urine spots may not fluoresce under UV. I'm not discounting the usefulness of UV, but it's not the end all be all.

If that floor is even a little uneven urine deposits can travel quite a bit in the pad and the moisture probe can quickly detect that since urine pretty much stays damp all the time until treated or removed. It also helps to know just how big that urine deposit really is in the pad so you can treat it accordingly. It can also help you to determine if a stain that "looks like urine" is actually urine or not. Sometimes you will have numerous stains and I know for myself I can't always tell the difference. This can save you from using a lot of your supples needlessly or even from using the wrong product for a given stain. Virtually any other thing that is spilled on the carpet will dry up fairly quickly and won't set off a moisture detector, but urine almost always will w/o fail. I'm talking 99.99% of the time because it attracts moisture to itself right out of the air. Virtually nothing else on a carpet will do that. This has helped me do a better job with fewer callbacks so you might want to consider it.
 
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It’s been everyone’s experience to get a call back on a piss pond you miraculously managed to clean out only to discover it’s a new deposit ( UV 365 - 395 ). It’s important the client KNOWS the “never pisser“ • • • will.
If a customer begins to tell me and comment how its miraculously cleaned out or something of that nature I should, I think immediately tamper expectations and the realities of what work was just performed in her home.
 

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I've said this a number of times, but I highly recommend keeping a moisture probe and using it for most urine jobs. UV is is great, but far from fool proof. I've seen too many cases where a home had virtually no stains that showed up under UV and I've been using UV since the mid 90's. I think it's a mistake to depend on that alone to locate the deposits because many times it will show absolutely NOTHING! If a customer has cleaned the carpet with a store machine or used any number of spot removers that can stop the UV dead in it's tracks. Actually I think I see this more often than not. It is EXTREMELY common IMHO. It's also true that even clearly visible urine spots may not fluoresce under UV. I'm not discounting the usefulness of UV, but it's not the end all be all.

If that floor is even a little uneven urine deposits can travel quite a bit in the pad and the moisture probe can quickly detect that since urine pretty much stays damp all the time until treated or removed. It also help to know just how big that urine deposit really is in the pad so you can treat it accordingly. It can also help you to determine if a stain that "looks like urine" is actually urine or not. Sometimes you will have numerous stains and I know for myself I can't always tell the difference. Virtually any other thing that is spilled on the carpet will dry up fairly quickly and won't set off a moisture detector, but urine almost always will w/o fail. I'm talking 99.99% of the time because it attracts moisture to itself right out of the air. Virtually nothing else on a carpet will do that. This has helped me do a better job with fewer callbacks so you might want to consider it.
Good insight into good use of the moisture meter. Definitely made some mental notes. Especially, perhaps using the moisture meter to try and find where the urine ends, etc.

I wonder. if water and everything else dries up over time and its really only the urine setting off the detector....was that a piss puddle in the olefin loop carpet the other day instead of water in the place the customer would "took his boots off all winter and the water would drain..."? :)
 

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Good insight into good use of the moisture meter. Definitely made some mental notes. Especially, perhaps using the moisture meter to try and find where the urine ends, etc.

I wonder. if water and everything else dries up over time and its really only the urine setting off the detector....was that a piss puddle in the olefin loop carpet the other day instead of water in the place the customer would "took his boots off all winter and the water would drain..."? :)
^seriously though.
 

wandwizard

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One other little tid bit for clarification on the use of a 2 part stain remover and why it can help. Dogs, in particular, eat dog foods that contain vitamins which contain food dye or they may take a vitamin with food dye. That dye is not broken down and they pee it out in their urine. Even the strongest peroxides on earth may have zero effect on them. You can normally tell by the color of the urine stain if food dye is present.
Good insight into good use of the moisture meter. Definitely made some mental notes. Especially, perhaps using the moisture meter to try and find where the urine ends, etc.

I wonder. if water and everything else dries up over time and its really only the urine setting off the detector....was that a piss puddle in the olefin loop carpet the other day instead of water in the place the customer would "took his boots off all winter and the water would drain..."? :)
I've been doing this with the moisture probe for quite a few years. I've never once seen any other substance set it off other than recent water damage. I have only seen maybe a couple of times where the house was so dehumidified that the urine wouldn't set off the probe and I was 100% certain it was in fact urine. Urine typically just doesn't dry out. I've seen urine deposits set off a moisture probe that I am certain were there for at least several years. NOTHING else I know of will do that although there might be some extremely rare exception to that. Urine is hygroscopic, meaning it literally attracts moisture right out of the air and from what I can tell it does an EXTREMELY good job of it!

Unless the home was literally flooded it would be very unusual for small amounts of water or virtually any other liquid like Coke, coffee, tea, etc., etc., to set off a moisture probe after say even a few days to a week. If it does something is definitely not right. Perhaps the house was closed up or something else is going on like the a/c isn't working properly or inadequate ventilation. I've had two customers in about the last 2 or 3 years who had saturated their carpets with Hoover Steam & Vacs. Both of them had severe moisture issues and one wound up replacing quite a bit of carpet because of it. That is just a very rare example of what can happen. Mark this down and make mental note of the term hygroscopic. Every pro should know exactly what it means and how it applies to urine.
 
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One other little tid bit for clarification on the use of a 2 part stain remover and why it can help. Dogs, in particular, eat dog foods that contain vitamins which contain food dye or they may take a vitamin with food dye. That dye is not broken down and they pee it out in their urine. Even the strongest peroxides on earth may have zero effect on them. You can normally tell by the color of the urine stain if food dye is present.


I've been doing this with the moisture probe for quite a few years. I've never once seen any other substance set it off other than recent water damage. I have only seen maybe a couple of times where the house was so dehumidified that the urine wouldn't set off the probe and I was 100% certain it was in fact urine. Urine typically just doesn't dry out. I've seen urine deposits set off a moisture probe that I am certain were there for at least several years. NOTHING else I know of will do that although there might be some extremely rare exception to that. Urine is hygroscopic, meaning it literally attracts moisture right out of the air and from what I can tell it does an EXTREMELY good job of it!

Unless the home was literally flooded it would be very unusual for small amounts of water or virtually any other liquid like Coke, coffee, tea, etc., etc., to set off a moisture probe after say even a few days to a week. If it does something is definitely not right. Perhaps the house was closed up or something else is going on like the a/c isn't working properly or inadequate ventilation. I've had two customers in about the last 2 or 3 years who had saturated their carpets with Hoover Steam & Vacs. Both of them had severe moisture issues and one wound up replacing quite a bit of carpet because of it. That is just a very rare example of what can happen. Mark this down and make mental note of the term hygroscopic. Every pro should know exactly what it means and how it applies to urine.
Well its all iInteresting. This particular situation was the downstairs garage entry area into the downstairs living which has the olefin loop carpet. Customer also had a dehumidifier running and shared he empties buckets all the time from it. He even asked if adding a second dehu would help.

All I could say was it made sense that it would help but I was unsure of what gains were to be had.

If a pitcher of water was spilled on the carpet how long do you think the moisture meter would detect there was moisture? Let's assume the spill was blotted with cotton bath towels at the time of the incident.
 
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U. S. Vet.

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I've said this a number of times, but I highly recommend keeping a moisture probe and using it for most urine jobs. UV is is great, but far from fool proof. I've seen too many cases where a home had virtually no stains that showed up under UV and I've been using UV since the mid 90's. I think it's a mistake to depend on that alone to locate the deposits because many times it will show absolutely NOTHING! If a customer has cleaned the carpet with a store machine or used any number of spot removers that can stop the UV dead in it's tracks. Actually I think I see this more often than not. It is EXTREMELY common IMHO. It's also true that even clearly visible urine spots may not fluoresce under UV. I'm not discounting the usefulness of UV, but it's not the end all be all.

If that floor is even a little uneven urine deposits can travel quite a bit in the pad and the moisture probe can quickly detect that since urine pretty much stays damp all the time until treated or removed. It also helps to know just how big that urine deposit really is in the pad so you can treat it accordingly. It can also help you to determine if a stain that "looks like urine" is actually urine or not. Sometimes you will have numerous stains and I know for myself I can't always tell the difference. This can save you from using a lot of your supples needlessly or even from using the wrong product for a given stain. Virtually any other thing that is spilled on the carpet will dry up fairly quickly and won't set off a moisture detector, but urine almost always will w/o fail. I'm talking 99.99% of the time because it attracts moisture to itself right out of the air. Virtually nothing else on a carpet will do that. This has helped me do a better job with fewer callbacks so you might want to consider it.
Agreed, a hydrostick or other long barreled mm should accompany any UV inspection if unsure. You will test areas that look suspicious or show signs we become familiar with. No one probes every inch for moisture so, how do any of us find urine 99.9 % by sight. Probes verify, not find urine. Urine can retain moister for 7 + years. A UV light can find urine super fast then you verify with a probe. If you can see it ( and it’s urine ), it’s going to glow almost always. UV’s can find urine that shows no trace without UV. One would not typically probe and less something tickles your spidy senses.
 

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This week I bought one 365nm and one 385nm UV flashlights.
Everyone thinks nm makes the difference. It doesn't. Our TMF light beats them all.

uv light tmf vs cobb.jpg
 

wandwizard

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Agreed, a hydrostick or other long barreled mm should accompany any UV inspection if unsure. You will test areas that look suspicious or show signs we become familiar with. No one probes every inch for moisture so, how do any of us find urine 99.9 % by sight. Probes verify, not find urine. Urine can retain moister for 7 + years. A UV light can find urine super fast then you verify with a probe. If you can see it ( and it’s urine ), it’s going to glow almost always. UV’s can find urine that shows no trace without UV. One would not typically probe and less something tickles your spidy senses.
"Probes verify, not find." I've found urine many times with a probe that could not be found with UV or any other method. Well, other than pulling all the carpet in the house up and removing all the furniture. No thanks on that! In short, yes you can find urine with a probe. I've done it many times over the years. No, you cannot probe every inch of the carpet. It's a tool and it is an indispensable IMHO when dealing with urine. I've run into a number of situations where there was no visible urine on the surface and no reaction to UV. Still, it was crystal clear there was urine in there somewhere. Using a probe can help locate it and treat it. Also, urine often does not glow whatsoever under UV. I've seen that numerous times over the years. I'm not saying if you don't do it my way you can't be successful at it, but I am saying it's a very valuable piece of info that I'm particularly passing on to the inexperienced on here. Probes do verify, but they can also find when nothing else can.
 

wandwizard

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Well its all iInteresting. This particular situation was the downstairs garage entry area into the downstairs living which has the olefin loop carpet. Customer also had a dehumidifier running and shared he empties buckets all the time from it. He even asked if adding a second dehu would help.

All I could say was it made sense that it would help but I was unsure of what gains were to be had.

If a pitcher of water was spilled on the carpet how long do you think the moisture meter would detect there was moisture? Let's assume the spill was blotted with cotton bath towels at the time of the incident.
I'd say a whole pitcher of water could stay damp for days or even weeks if the house was either closed up or either the central air or heat were not being run. It absolutely will not stay damp for years like urine can and does. If it were blotted up well it would be bone dry and not set off a meter after probably a few days. With a fan much less. Even after all the liquid completely dries out from urine what remains will keep attracting moisture basically forever or until you remove it. It has been extremely rare that I've personally seen a urine deposit not set of a moisture probe.

Btw, if anyone doubts what I'm saying here I suggest the next time you are in a home that you know for sure has urine spots, but also has a number of other stains and spills just take a minute or so and hit them with the moisture probe. Urine WILL set it off and the non urine spills will not. I'm just trying to help here. I find this very useful at times since I personally can't always identify urine by sight or even by UV. Both tools are equally useful IMHO.
 
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U. S. Vet.

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"Probes verify, not find." I've found urine many times with a probe that could not be found with UV or any other method. Well, other than pulling all the carpet in the house up and removing all the furniture. No thanks on that! In short, yes you can find urine with a probe. I've done it many times over the years. No, you cannot probe every inch of the carpet. It's a tool and it is an indispensable IMHO when dealing with urine. I've run into a number of situations where there was no visible urine on the surface and no reaction to UV. Still, it was crystal clear there was urine in there somewhere. Using a probe can help locate it and treat it. Also, urine often does not glow whatsoever under UV. I've seen that numerous times over the years. I'm not saying if you don't do it my way you can't be successful at it, but I am saying it's a very valuable piece of info that I'm particularly passing on to the inexperienced on here. Probes do verify, but they can also find when nothing else can.
I didn’t say you can’t find urine with the probe. What I did say directly and indirectly was that you place your probe where you think urine might be. Are you A.) walking around looking for something or B.) randomly poking around hoping you score? You are looking for signs of “shifts” ; something off, or just nasty, here I am type of stinker. Reach down and pull some cash out and get the freakin light - you’ll hick yourself in the buttocks for having waited this long. It’ll blow your mind how quickly you’ll learn the intricacies of the UV funk hunt.
 

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In a side by side comparo, one room, two pros. one has a UV & a probe, the other a probe only. HHHMMMMM ????
 

wandwizard

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In a side by side comparo, one room, two pros. one has a UV & a probe, the other a probe only. HHHMMMMM ????
Did I even once say I didn't use UV? Show me where I said that? I have had one of the TMF flashlights since shortly after they came out and have used UV since the early to mid 90's. What I am dogmatically saying is you NEED BOTH. I am saying UV is not the end all be all. I'm not giving you guesswork here. If I weren't confident that every word I've said above is accurate I wouldn't have posted it. There are times when finding all the urine and doing a job successfully can hinge on it. You CANNOT find it always with UV and you can take that to the bank and cash it. It is a FACT.

If you don't think it's necessary to use a moisture detector then don't. I find it equally as useful as UV and many times it has been more effective where the UV was an utter failure. Again, this is not I think so stuff, or I wouldn't be posting it. I've done thousands of urine jobs over the last nearly 33 years. I'm trying to help you and others, but if you don't think what I'm saying is for you then don't use it. And yes, if I know there is urine in an area that I can't see I will take a few minutes and randomly use the moisture probe to see if I can locate it. If it's a male dog it will be in areas where they hike their legs like corners of furniture or walls. Female dogs will go anywhere and can urinate pretty large spots. The customer may use something to try and remove the surface spot leaving almost ALL of the urine in the pad. Many times because the customer did that the UV will not show a thing! You don't seem to think what I'm saying is valid and I won't waste any more brain cells trying to convince you otherwise. Btw, many times the customer will know approximately where the deposit is and that's where I start with the probe.
 

U. S. Vet.

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Did I even once say I didn't use UV? Show me where I said that? I have had one of the TMF flashlights since shortly after they came out and have used UV since the early to mid 90's. What I am dogmatically saying is you NEED BOTH. I am saying UV is not the end all be all. I'm not giving you guesswork here. If I weren't confident that every word I've said above is accurate I wouldn't have posted it. There are times when finding all the urine and doing a job successfully can hinge on it. You CANNOT find it always with UV and you can take that to the bank and cash it. It is a FACT.

If you don't think it's necessary to use a moisture detector then don't. I find it equally as useful as UV and many times it has been more effective where the UV was an utter failure. Again, this is not I think so stuff, or I wouldn't be posting it. I've done thousands of urine jobs over the last nearly 33 years. I'm trying to help you and others, but if you don't think what I'm saying is for you then don't use it. And yes, if I know there is urine in an area that I can't see I will take a few minutes and randomly use the moisture probe to see if I can locate it. If it's a male dog it will be in areas where they hike their legs like corners of furniture or walls. Female dogs will go anywhere and can urinate pretty large spots. The customer may use something to try and remove the surface spot leaving almost ALL of the urine in the pad. Many times because the customer did that the UV will not show a thing! You don't seem to think what I'm saying is valid and I won't waste any more brain cells trying to convince you otherwise. Btw, many times the customer will know approximately where the deposit is and that's where I start with the probe.
First, reread the post - I said you put your probe where you think urine is. If it’s visible ( and it’s urine ), it will almost always glow. If you can’t see the urine - aaahhhhhh, you cant see the urine - some spots may not be visible to the eye and we know that; UV‘s are indispensable here. They are indispensable period If you are doing urine. I have serious reservations about your experience with UV’s if you espouse this Nonsense. Knowing where urine is cancels the need for either as a “finding” tool the probe is the right tool here; UV finds, probe confirms if in doubt - just as I said before. Your left with flawed logic beyond that point. You are Simply wrong in your logic and your too stubborn to back down and thank me for straightening you out. Get a UV and stop leaving loads of urine behind. BTW, you continually refer to piss in the pad. What are you doing there? Extractions are a whole other ballpark. Look at what’s written carefully; it will help you grow - even after 30 years of doing it wrong.
 
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U. S. Vet.

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First, reread the post - I said you put your probe where you think urine is. If it’s visible ( and it’s urine ), it will almost always glow. If you can’t see the urine - aaahhhhhh, you cant see the urine - some spots may not be visible to the eye and we know that; UV‘s are indispensable here. They are indispensable period If you are doing urine. I have serious reservations about your experience with UV’s if you espouse this Nonsense. Knowing where urine is cancels the need for either as a “finding” tool the probe is the right tool here; UV finds, probe confirms if in doubt - just as I said before. Your left with flawed logic beyond that point. You are Simply wrong in your logic and your too stubborn to back down and thank me for straightening you out. Get a UV and stop leaving loads of urine behind. BTW, you continually refer to piss in the pad. What are you doing there? Extractions are a whole other ballpark. Look at what’s written carefully; it will help you grow - even after 30 years of doing it wrong.
Oh, and females pee more than males??? If you are suggesting that male dogs pee on furniture to the extent that it makes a noticeable difference in volume on carpets, well, ludicrous. If not, well, ludicrous,
they both pee the same and as a general rule male dogs do not lift their leg and pee on furniture - very rare. The more you criticize and lay down these painfully incorrect statements, the more I think you need IICRC training or just pay attention, it’s not too late.
keep in mind these “painfully incorrect statements are made in an attempt to ” help me and others”. I’ll be fine but there are countless ( well, I guess rob does count them to some extent), inexperienced folks young and old that read these posts and take them for Bible. If you are inclined to offer advise to others (vs. a personal conversation ), than either get it right or be willing to learn. But to offer wrong advise once and again after correcting, shows, well, what it shows. I honestly believe you are well intentioned and I really want to be your friend - honestly. We cannot both be right and in fact your advise hinders the best ( not only ), method of dealing with urine issues.
 
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wandwizard

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We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm not trying to be stubborn or argumentative and I'm sorry if it sounds that way to you. The thing about this and all other forums is it's like an all you can eat buffet. Choose what you want and leave the rest. I know just how invaluable a moisture detector is to do a urine inspection. I will use it until I hang up my wands for the last time which may not be too long from now. If you have a way you and most importantly your customers are happy with then by all means keep doing what works for you. Isn't that what we all shoot for? I shoot for 100% customer satisfaction and I'm sure most of the guys on here do as well. I will say every carpet cleaner needs a good moisture detector like the Dri Eaz or Hydro Shark in their arsenal. I couldn't do w/o mine and use if frequently. They're useful for more than just flooding.
 

U. S. Vet.

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We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm not trying to be stubborn or argumentative and I'm sorry if it sounds that way to you. The thing about this and all other forums is it's like an all you can eat buffet. Choose what you want and leave the rest. I know just how invaluable a moisture detector is to do a urine inspection. I will use it until I hang up my wands for the last time which may not be too long from now. If you have a way you and most importantly your customers are happy with then by all means keep doing what works for you. Isn't that what we all shoot for? I shoot for 100% customer satisfaction and I'm sure most of the guys on here do as well. I will say every carpet cleaner needs a good moisture detector like the Dri Eaz or Hydro Shark in their arsenal. I couldn't do w/o mine and use if frequently. They're useful for more than just flooding.
No malice toward anyone is intended - I’ve said that. However opinion and method are not congruous in this topic matter. Intent will not identify error or make it work. The best way to see this is to circle anything from your posts that are even slightly different then what I have said with a red permanent ink pen • • • • done
OOOHHHH, cum-onnnnnn I’m only slightly kidding.
BTW, hehehehe, I have two sharks (one w the obligatory black tape around the handle - stays in t shop. Gave up on t extendable one for breakage. They can’t figure out a functional folding mechanism for the prongs ( or a decent, logical battery exchange evolution), for that matter. • • • can we see a meter that detracts from the top so we don’t have to reach into funky land to retrieve the needles ( that actually work ). And while there, let’s see an easy-peasy battery exchange evolution that doesn’t eventually involve some form of external applications to secure ANYTHING !!!!
Stepping out in poo land here • • • treading lightly here • • rob might show us something like that soon • • • • and, and, and, make a crap load of green bunnies $$$$ - I get sumtin, sumtin, see wht’m sayyyyin.
seriously, if rob or someone he contracts came up w a well designed meter, providing it was well priced, would be an immediate addition to my bag - o - tools. HydraMaster can’t keep DM3’s or its accessory handle in stock - ( can’t produce them fast enough ), they have non available for drop ship !!! This is the result of a well designed product • • • • hint hint
 
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