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Ole fashion way, no pre spray

Cameron RDS

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I cleaned my house the other day, and I have a commercial job coming up that I'd really like to just use an extraction rinse on. So I figured I'd see how just using am extraction rinse on my own house would go. This is with a portable btw because the commercial job is in a high rise. My house carpet was pretty dirty. It has been raining alot where I live, and have 3 dogs inside has made quite the mess. I really thought by not using a prespray, the carpet wasn't going to clean up at all. However, my carpet cleaned up great, especially my white carpet. Which makes me wonder do I really need prespray. I really didn't have to work that much harder, and to the naked eye the carpet looks just as good.

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keep it clean

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Thats how i was taught to clean carpets. Two scoops powder 90 in the tank and dump two 5 gal buckets of hot water in and go. 1 spray bottle of pog on top of machine in case a spot didnt move. Then wet n jet.

For the most part it did work. But now i prespray. I have attempted to skip prespray/aggitation again and regretted it. On large commercial with porty ide mix up a good prespray ideally with peroxide for them coffee/tea spots. So i could hit them directly before theyre in reach of the wand. And a bottle of pog for oil. Power gel works wonders on copy toner. Rinse of your choice in machine and go. I like formula 90 powdered it returns to a powder when dry. There are a few others that crystallize also. If concerned about it or if you got a helper run the 175 with cotton bonnet over cleaned area to further remove soil.


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Prosteam-sonomacounty

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Different concepts of "clean".
Using an emulsifier as yer rinse like 90 or dry slurry, cleans well but it leaves the carpet in an alkali state that is "soil loving"...

Much better putting the heavy emulsifiers in the pre treat and using a low ph to rinse.

Best of both worlds because you effectively remove soil but don't leave a soil living property in carpet
 

Tom Forsythe

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The pH of the carpet is not directly related to re-soiling. The choice of surfactants is directly related to re-soiling as the wrong choice of surfactant can leave a sticky residue. Most fragrances also have a sticky residue so be careful about too much fragrance, especially if you add your own to the headpak. Also traffic on carpet before drying leads to soil being removed from your shoes (alkalinity aids this process). This is why you leave booties, use fans and extra dry strokes to limit this issue. An acid or alkaline rinse can be formulated to be a re-soiler, which is why we always do residue tests on every product that we release to the industry to assure that their proper use does not contribute to re-soiling. Some premature soiling is wicking usually caused by carpet type and improper drying.
 

Fedri

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Here is what I use as an emulsifier which does not re-soil. I do prespray only to the traffic areas or filthy carpets and rinse it with the e-steam emulsifier. I do have a direct injection that is attached to my otter pump but recently something was wrong with it, I am replacing it and in the mean time I am just using plain water to rinse. How ever I do miss my rinsing agent.

A residue free powdered emulsifier that leaves carpets cleaner, brighter and softer. Dissolves quickly and completely. 100% active ingredients. Fresh, clean citrus fragrance. Contains no optical brighteners.Residue-free. Will not promote re-soiling. Powerful grease cutting agents to break down oily soils. Meets specifications for use on stain resistant carpets. Ideal for todays "high-heat" truckmounts. Diluted pH: 9.7. dilution ratio: 1:1280.

http://catalog.kimpaper.com/p/0313005/Esteam-Performance-CBS-Encapsulating-Emulsifier-6-lb/
 
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Fedri

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Just wanted to add this, I am not big with commercial but, last year I have cleaned a very greasy restaurant, the door entry from the kitchen was the worse area, all I did was rinsed it with the e-steam emulsifier combined with high heat and the owner was amazed how well it came out. How ever I have pre-sprayed the rest of the carpet because of heavier soil rather then grease. It is very effective combined with high heat.
 

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Cameron RDS

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The pH of the carpet is not directly related to re-soiling. The choice of surfactants is directly related to re-soiling as the wrong choice of surfactant can leave a sticky residue. Most fragrances also have a sticky residue so be careful about too much fragrance, especially if you add your own to the headpak. Also traffic on carpet before drying leads to soil being removed from your shoes (alkalinity aids this process). This is why you leave booties, use fans and extra dry strokes to limit this issue. An acid or alkaline rinse can be formulated to be a re-soiler, which is why we always do residue tests on every product that we release to the industry to assure that their proper use does not contribute to re-soiling. Some premature soiling is wicking usually caused by carpet type and improper drying.
People keep saying that by using an alkaline rinse that it re soils faster, but your saying that isn't exactly true depending on the rinse. I haven't noticed rapid re soilong in my house to be honest. I use what I feel is a good alk rinse though. I think my rinse even says not soil attracting residue on the container.

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Cameron RDS

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Different concepts of "clean".
Using an emulsifier as yer rinse like 90 or dry slurry, cleans well but it leaves the carpet in an alkali state that is "soil loving"...

Much better putting the heavy emulsifiers in the pre treat and using a low ph to rinse.

Best of both worlds because you effectively remove soil but don't leave a soil living property in carpet
Do you agree with Tom assessment then?

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Prosteam-sonomacounty

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Do you agree with Tom assessment then?

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In part, maybe.
I always use a low ph rinse that has an encap in it so what I pre treat with makes little difference in terms of residue.
Gotta take what manufacturers say with a grain of salt.
I got no dog in the fight. Just 25 years of cleaning experience and I've used just about everything
 

Tom Forsythe

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I have no dog in this hunt as we sell both acid and alkaline rinses. My goal is to explain chemistry in terms that are easy to understand so that users can better understand the science of cleaning and enable them to separate facts from fiction (a lot of marketing hype out there is fiction.) We believe that the more you know the more often you will choose Bridgepoint products. "Bridgepoint Systems, where the science of cleaning becomes an art."
 
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Prosteam-sonomacounty

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I have no dog in this hunt as we sell both acid and alkaline rinses. My goal is to explain chemistry in terms that are easy to understand so that users can better understand the science of cleaning and enable them to separate facts from fiction (a lot of marketing hype out there is fiction.) We believe that the more you know the more often you will choose Bridgepoint products. "Bridgepoint Systems, where the science of cleaning becomes an art."
Here's the SDS for bridgepoint flex

Can we stop byllshitting each other now?...
 

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SAA

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Since some may or may not know Tom Forsythe, he is a chemist and a very good one for our industry. I am sure he cares about sales in the sense that it keeps the company in business and thus it keeps his job going. Other than that, his only interest in what he works on or tests is for the purpose of making sure something works. He is relentless in his testing and a true professional that shares a lot of valuable information on this board and also to and for anyone that would need help. He would be the first in line, with Scott W. as well, to help anyone that needed help, whether they bought their product line or not. I have known both of these people for many years and know them to be true professionals in a world where that word can be used rather loosely.

For those that would truly love to progress in this industry, chemistry is a very important issue to learn all one is able to from those that really know what is true and not the guess work that so many make in conversations such as this one. I personally have worked with chemical manufacturers and fiber producers as well as large commercial institutions that needed help from many sources. When it comes down to it, people like Tom are the ones who help develop what is needed when we cannot always solve the problem without their help. Without a doubt, most that may lay a claim to 'knowing' what their chemicals do or do not do and that just is not backed up by any real testing for the most part. (a very simple residue test can be performed with any chemical and it will literally tell you if you should be using that product or not; it takes little effort but I would bet practically no one ever does it or has ever done it; if one did, they would truly have a great field test to know what their chemical of choice will likely do or not do; if they did it they would be in a good position to understand what Tom is talking about).

Our cleaning chemistry is so much more that pH, that is only a measurement of strength and does not in any way tell the whole story. People like Tom have made the chemistry we use fairly easy to work with. They are also the ones that 'Help' those of us that really need the correct information when performing our jobs of cleaning.

To show this type disrespect to Tom, is the epitome of callowness but fortunately anyone with this can easily correct it with a little humility.

Fortunately for many here, this board is designed by Robert and Tre to help all that want help to learn. They are able to provide the means for someone like Tom to share his expertise with any who will want to learn something important. Hopefully many will want to have the type of knowledge that Tom is sharing, graciously sharing even in the midst of brashness.

Thank you Tom for sharing your wealth of knowledge on posts like this.

SAA
 

Prosteam-sonomacounty

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Since some may or may not know Tom Forsythe, he is a chemist and a very good one for our industry. I am sure he cares about sales in the sense that it keeps the company in business and thus it keeps his job going. Other than that, his only interest in what he works on or tests is for the purpose of making sure something works. He is relentless in his testing and a true professional that shares a lot of valuable information on this board and also to and for anyone that would need help. He would be the first in line, with Scott W. as well, to help anyone that needed help, whether they bought their product line or not. I have known both of these people for many years and know them to be true professionals in a world where that word can be used rather loosely.

For those that would truly love to progress in this industry, chemistry is a very important issue to learn all one is able to from those that really know what is true and not the guess work that so many make in conversations such as this one. I personally have worked with chemical manufacturers and fiber producers as well as large commercial institutions that needed help from many sources. When it comes down to it, people like Tom are the ones who help develop what is needed when we cannot always solve the problem without their help. Without a doubt, most that may lay a claim to 'knowing' what their chemicals do or do not do and that just is not backed up by any real testing for the most part. (a very simple residue test can be performed with any chemical and it will literally tell you if you should be using that product or not; it takes little effort but I would bet practically no one ever does it or has ever done it; if one did, they would truly have a great field test to know what their chemical of choice will likely do or not do; if they did it they would be in a good position to understand what Tom is talking about).

Our cleaning chemistry is so much more that pH, that is only a measurement of strength and does not in any way tell the whole story. People like Tom have made the chemistry we use fairly easy to work with. They are also the ones that 'Help' those of us that really need the correct information when performing our jobs of cleaning.

To show this type disrespect to Tom, is the epitome of callowness but fortunately anyone with this can easily correct it with a little humility.

Fortunately for many here, this board is designed by Robert and Tre to help all that want help to learn. They are able to provide the means for someone like Tom to share his expertise with any who will want to learn something important. Hopefully many will want to have the type of knowledge that Tom is sharing, graciously sharing even in the midst of brashness.

Thank you Tom for sharing your wealth of knowledge on posts like this.

SAA
Dude!...the SDS doesn't lie
 

Tom Forsythe

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What am I missing? What do the SDS have anything to do with the topic being discussed? My only point is that alkalinity is not to blame for re-soiling. Other ingredients like surfactants and fragrance are the primary factors. Since we sell both acid and alkaline rinses, my perspective does not benefit sales, but contributes to the overall understanding of cleaners who use them. If someone chooses to use a well formulated alkaline rinse, then they should not believe that their product will contribute to re-soiling just because of the alkalinity like someone stated. Science matters!
 

pmathot

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If you want to see that resoiling is not always pH related, put a neutral floor cleaner detergent on your van without rinsing and see how've black it has become in a few days.

Having guys like Tom, Scott W, Steve Andrews and others is a real asset to this board, or we'd have to rely on the anecdotes of carpet cleaners who generally have very little capacity to quantitively measure results.

As an example of this, the most common indication a carpet cleaner gives of efficacy is a before and after - which only shows bound particulate soil removal, demonstrates nothing about the whether the gunk that's bound the soil has been removed, and nothing about resoiling rates.

And carpet cleaners aren't the only ones who struggle to defer to the experts. Just look at how many anti-vax people are getting about, or climate change deniers.....


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