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LX & 8.4 In Series

Jim Davisson

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Jimsteam was kind enough to send me a spare Ametek 122175-00 8.4 for testing purposes. The results are interesting and the combination has potential. Here's the results with no inline filter or muffler installed:

Dual LX's 13.8" Hg tested today for a baseline. (We have a system moving through today and it might reflect why my reading is lower than my typical of ~14.25).

239 CFM ATM
221 CFM @ 25'
210 CFM @ 50'
192 CFM @ 100'
(previous LX readings)

Hybrid LX leading and 8.4 trailing 15.15" Hg

220 CFM ATM
207 CFM @ 25'
195 CFM @ 50'
181 CFM @ 100'

Hybrid 8.4 leading and LX trailing 14.90" Hg

205 CFM @ ATM
198 CFM @ 25'
194 CFM @ 50'
175 CFM @ 100'

Because I used no cuffs and continuous hose segments for each test, the lift readings we're the same ATM or at the end of the hose.

My synopsis is if you are going to run unmatched motors is to have the higher CFM motor leading and the higher lift motor trailing whenever possible.

Overall in this case, a gain in lift and a loss of CFM's in my system which is not going to be indicative of anybody else's system. Honestly, I would not hesitate to run these motors with the LX leading with a high flow wand... Simply because I have found the gain in lift is worth the small penalty in CFM's. This is only "my opinion" and it isn't going to line up with others opinions on the subject. Cheers!
 

Jimsteam

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Thanks Jim for taking the time to test ,I know you have been busy with work and your TM. Appreciate you testing the way I have in the past.
Even with using Cuffs I would expect to still have 150 CFM using either configuration and .no rear booster for added lift .

Thanks again !!
 

Jim Davisson

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You are welcome and thanks for sending the motor and let me know where and when you want it returned to.

I enjoy doing this stuff. How I still have a girlfriend is the amazing part!? If I'm not working I'm either fishin, taking something apart or sitting on the couch with a far away look like a mental patient thinking my way through some generator heat exchanger project issue lol. She deserves a vacation soon!
 

Jimsteam

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Good stuff.

And still yet to see any motor performance comparisons where LX motors do not post the highest numbers all around.

Just sayin......
Notice the HGs are higher with the LX / 8.4 combo ?
Dual LXs have more CFM total but the LX/8.4 less CFM drop per foot.
Also LX/8.4 is very well balanced system @ 200 CFM / 200” of lift.
 
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Odin

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did you count into play the altitude, ambient temperature, relative humidity, time of day and phase of the moon?

if your going to do testing might as well do it right.
 

Jimsteam

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did you count into play the altitude, ambient temperature, relative humidity, time of day and phase of the moon?

if your going to do testing might as well do it right.

Jim actually had a front coming thru and the H20 readings were different before , during and after the front.
 

Ed Valentine

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The operator must also consider the blowing of circuits using---any---machine period. This can be frustrating as anyone knows. Having "more-more power" always requires "more amp draw". For us here, what's the point? If that is what the normal cleaner wants, then alright, lets add more vac motors and blow the house to kingdom come!

For the record; I know those 6.6 motors (#122628-00) what mytee is promotioning as their special "LX", draw 17.5 amps (not much left for other components, or a safety net when operating off of a circuit in a home. (Our 8.4 draws 13.7 amps) In addition, when comparing btw, that particular 6.6 Lift is rated at 114.9 vs. the 8.4 at 146.6

IMHO, I think people building machines should stick within some logical boundaries. And, after all, that was another reason why we invented long ago, the POWER BOOSTER which can be plugged in down line.

We should start thinking what's practical !

Just my opinion and experience!
 
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Jim Davisson

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Ed you need to do a little due diligence before stating things like that. This is an 8.4 in the top screen and an LX & a 92w fan or ~1 amp on the bottom screen running with no hose at max amp draw.
20180721_172349.jpg
 

Ed Valentine

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Jim;

The information which I listed above was directly for the horses mouth so to speak; Ametek's Specification Sheet. Please note, I do not wish to sugar coat any thing other than provide the facts. There is an old saying which is: "Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Having stated that, please note that I believe you based on what you believe to be an accurate test based on very limited components. I say this because Ametek (and I was there btw) has a testing facility and extremely high tech testing components the likes of which you and I have never seen!

Now, in conclusion, Jim, I get the feeling that you may feel that I am a burr under your saddle so to speak, however, please note that I am not and again, I am happy you love and believe your findings, and your machines. I don't want to get into a pissing match; that's not the point.
You should be proud of what you have accomplished.

Best;
Ed Valentine
 
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Jim Davisson

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Ed, I believe in 15 amp breakers. They don't lie. MY dual LX machine runs on TWO 15 amp circuits.

The one thing I need to remember, is your jabs are all purely based on speculation. I have actually bought and used the vacuum motors in question for 6 months and I think that's a big difference vs your bitter conjecture.

Spin it any way you want to, but do me a favor and start your own thread and speculate there or pony up and buy a pair of LX's and show us your findings.
 

Ed Valentine

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Jim;

Respectfully, Perhaps you didn't put your glasses on when you read my comment above.

First, I wasn't reacting to YOU or any of your testing. You did an honest test.

Second, I even listed the motor number specifically, so that anyone could follow up with Ameteks' specification sheet and read for themselves. You see, it wouldn't make sense to "speculate, or assume" as you suggest that I do. That wouldn't make sense. And, if Ametek's spec sheet shows that this particular model draws 17.5 amps, how does yours run on only 15 amps (open)? That really doesn't make sense.

Third, as I mentioned last week in a thread here, I don't care what others may use period. What I do care about is the truth because otherwise, it may cost the innocent hard working operator some valuable cash. That particular motor may be a good one, especially if Ametek makes it, I'm not disputing that aspect.

Lastly, you stated harshly referring to myself; "...your bitter conjecture"...... I suggest that you put away that dagger you are carrying for whatever reason, and realize who is really on your side. I do a lot of business with Ametek and know the inside people there; thus, have terrific re pore with all. And, their specifications have always been the gospel and have never varied.

Best to you in your efforts and glad you are happy with your results thus far;
Ed Valentine
 
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CCWorks

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Your really messing with the information by using two different motors at the same time in your testing.
In other words, your information is just stupid when using two vacuum motors that are not the same vacuum motors in your published testing.
 

CCWorks

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That image should be backed up with a non cut / no break video feed, published.

Excuse me, I was thinking the 8.4 vacuum motors were drawing 16 amps.

Some times the photos on TMF change places, but that was not the problem today.

I could be in a lot of pain, confusion and upset at things.

My apologies, Jim D.
 

Ymetimme

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Jimsteam was kind enough to send me a spare Ametek 122175-00 8.4 for testing purposes. The results are interesting and the combination has potential. Here's the results with no inline filter or muffler installed:

Dual LX's 13.8" Hg tested today for a baseline. (We have a system moving through today and it might reflect why my reading is lower than my typical of ~14.25).

239 CFM ATM
221 CFM @ 25'
210 CFM @ 50'
192 CFM @ 100'
(previous LX readings)

Hybrid LX leading and 8.4 trailing 15.15" Hg

220 CFM ATM
207 CFM @ 25'
195 CFM @ 50'
181 CFM @ 100'

Hybrid 8.4 leading and LX trailing 14.90" Hg

205 CFM @ ATM
198 CFM @ 25'
194 CFM @ 50'
175 CFM @ 100'

Because I used no cuffs and continuous hose segments for each test, the lift readings we're the same ATM or at the end of the hose.

My synopsis is if you are going to run unmatched motors is to have the higher CFM motor leading and the higher lift motor trailing whenever possible.

Overall in this case, a gain in lift and a loss of CFM's in my system which is not going to be indicative of anybody else's system. Honestly, I would not hesitate to run these motors with the LX leading with a high flow wand... Simply because I have found the gain in lift is worth the small penalty in CFM's. This is only "my opinion" and it isn't going to line up with others opinions on the subject. Cheers!
Thanks for the information Jim it is greatly appreciated

It's neat to see that the 8. 4 is a benefit

I still plan on doing more experimentation with my 8. 4 s

I'm afraid the ls is amp draw would not fit into my area too well South west Michigan north west Indiana. I clean a lot of older homes in high-end communities and as weird as it sounds the wiring is not up to Snuff. In fact sometime I'm stuck with 2 10 amp Breakers within a reasonable distance of the truck I really don't like running the generator if I don't have to

Don't be discouraged to try new things and learn new things !

I also feel mr. Valentine was not trying to do anything to cause you harm he was as mentioning the amp draw that ametek listed for ls

Thank you so much
 

Jimsteam

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Thanks for the information Jim it is greatly appreciated

It's neat to see that the 8. 4 is a benefit

I still plan on doing more experimentation with my 8. 4 s

I'm afraid the ls is amp draw would not fit into my area too well South west Michigan north west Indiana. I clean a lot of older homes in high-end communities and as weird as it sounds the wiring is not up to Snuff. In fact sometime I'm stuck with 2 10 amp Breakers within a reasonable distance of the truck I really don't like running the generator if I don't have to

Don't be discouraged to try new things and learn new things !

I also feel mr. Valentine was not trying to do anything to cause you harm he was as mentioning the amp draw that ametek listed for ls

Thank you so much
I'm in South east Mi. my generator has saved me hundreds of times due to wiring not up to snuff or overloaded. Cant leave home without a ground adapter to simply use my vacuum cleaner !!
This especially came apparent when I started using a down-line booster back in 2010 and when I popped a breaker for a sump pump on a spring day !!!. Luckily they had a water pressure back up sump pump (Liberty) which alerted the customer who alerted me !!
That incident scared me enough to purchase a generator. 1/2 gallon of gas per hour is worth the peace of mind IMO.
Jims numbers with the LX and 8.4 are very similar to my Jaguar 8.4 with my exhaust booster (3 circuits) . Similar performance with 2 circuits (pair of 20 amps if necessary) looks very appealing to me.
At the moment I'm in no rush since I have many hours left with the proven 8.4s and spares however I plan on ordering a single stage 6.6 in the future and do my own testing during the cold slow winter months up north.
Peace
 

Jim Davisson

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@Ymetimme anytime you do things differently on TMF, carpet cleaners are going to argue about it... Every thread damn near.

I knew Odin and Ed Valentine were both going to snipe at it before I posted it. Odin was going to be sarcastic and Ed was going to "respectfully" point out that Mytee and their "special" motor as he puts it is a false economy, he's done it on every LX thread so far, why was this one going to be different.

This butthurt banter gets tiresome, but it was fully expected. This type of rhetoric is why many "on" here won't post, I can't blame them a bit....
 
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