Loosing pressure on 370 ss | TruckMount Forums #1 Carpet Cleaning Forums

Loosing pressure on 370 ss

Justin Legend Brands

Expert Truckmount Mechanic
May 7, 2018
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Justin Johnston
Is there a part number ?
We actually went with a new style thermal relief valve that eliminates the need for this. 117832 KIT, THERMAL VALVE RETROFIT. This can be used on any machine manufactured after July 2012.
 

sbsscn

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We actually went with a new style thermal relief valve that eliminates the need for this. 117832 KIT, THERMAL VALVE RETROFIT. This can be used on any machine manufactured after July 2012.
is it safe to say that the steam relief valve is no longer needed?

I am having a tremendously difficult time getting hold of this retrofit kit 117832, Although I strongly belief that Sapphire should have done a service bulletin/recall, I would rather them at least let me buy it directly from them but Im not allowed and 2 distributors have no knowledge of the kit and are "looking into for me" ( for 8 days now, and still waiting.

Can you shed light on who would have it and how much $

and you sure legends cannot sell it to me directly?
 

Justin Legend Brands

Expert Truckmount Mechanic
May 7, 2018
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33
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Real Name
Justin Johnston
is it safe to say that the steam relief valve is no longer needed?

I am having a tremendously difficult time getting hold of this retrofit kit 117832, Although I strongly belief that Sapphire should have done a service bulletin/recall, I would rather them at least let me buy it directly from them but Im not allowed and 2 distributors have no knowledge of the kit and are "looking into for me" ( for 8 days now, and still waiting.

Can you shed light on who would have it and how much $

and you sure legends cannot sell it to me directly?
The steam relief valve is no longer needed.

Which distributors have you reached out to, and I will call them? Or you can give them my cell, 253-651-3468, and I would be happy to chat with them about it.

All of our distributors have access to it, and I am sorry, but we can not sell it to you directly.
 

sbsscn

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Sep 17, 2009
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I was able to get a kit. the bypass hose was super short.
this kit was not an easy install. I had to take the 2 flare adapter off to thread in the thermal valve, and the valve would not tighten with the fitting pointing up. I really wish this bulletin would have been told to all of the registered owners and warned about the issue. I really like this machine but I cant say the same about the communication from the MFG, Make me feel like there is no value to a customer by not informing them and at least covering some of the cost for a lack of engineering. I knew something was wrong when a legend tech would tell me that this machine will "never" dump to the waste tank. Makes me wonder if this issue caused my first pump to blow the seals. Legends should cover this issue
 

AussieCarpetBloke

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May 15, 2016
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The steam relief valve is no longer needed.

Which distributors have you reached out to, and I will call them? Or you can give them my cell, 253-651-3468, and I would be happy to chat with them about it.

All of our distributors have access to it, and I am sorry, but we can not sell it to you directly.

What’s more important Justin??

It’s criminal, protecting “authorised distributors”margins on your spare parts when the “AUTHORISED DISTRIBUTORS/AGENTS” aren’t able to diagnose or fix basic TM problems, they don’t stock parts on hand and only order parts as needed to fix a sapphire truckmount. Now COVID had pushed OS freight from 6-8days to 6 weeks...

Or would you think ITS MORE IMPORTANT to help the poor guy who spent THOUSANDS and purchased a sapphire truckmount that has broken down, and give him access to parts he has diagnosed to get his business up and running so he can feed his family....


Feeding your fat profits and not helping us to feed our Children is YOUR PROBLEM
 

Justin Legend Brands

Expert Truckmount Mechanic
May 7, 2018
54
33
18
Real Name
Justin Johnston
I was able to get a kit. the bypass hose was super short.
this kit was not an easy install. I had to take the 2 flare adapter off to thread in the thermal valve, and the valve would not tighten with the fitting pointing up. I really wish this bulletin would have been told to all of the registered owners and warned about the issue. I really like this machine but I cant say the same about the communication from the MFG, Make me feel like there is no value to a customer by not informing them and at least covering some of the cost for a lack of engineering. I knew something was wrong when a legend tech would tell me that this machine will "never" dump to the waste tank. Makes me wonder if this issue caused my first pump to blow the seals. Legends should cover this issue
I am glad you were able to get a kit. The bypass hose is short as you are supposed to move the valve to the other left side (if you are looking at the back of the machine) of the thermal well, so the hose goes straight up to the top of the thermal well where it draws the water from instead of across the back of the exhaust of the machine.
1620996401017.png


I am not sure how the machine will "never" dump to the wast tank as the thermal relief valve is connected to the waste tank so as soon as the thermal relief valve opens, it will dump to the waste tank.
 

john P.

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Jun 13, 2020
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John Paepke
370 ss pressure has fluxuating and dropping to zero. It also sounds sluggish when in the run position before I start it. Help please?
my 570 was doing that , and I recently took it in for assessment, and they found the float in the waterbox had a bent arm and was not working properly. they bent it back, and cleaned it up and watched it and it worked every time afterwards. I've done some large jobs since and problem solved.
the current float replacement is no longer available, but they do make retrofits , and they are quite pricey and hard to install from the mechanics point of view? the complete truck mount has to come out of the truck.
 

sbsscn

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I am glad you were able to get a kit. The bypass hose is short as you are supposed to move the valve to the other left side (if you are looking at the back of the machine) of the thermal well, so the hose goes straight up to the top of the thermal well where it draws the water from instead of across the back of the exhaust of the machine. View attachment 96744

I am not sure how the machine will "never" dump to the wast tank as the thermal relief valve is connected to the waste tank so as soon as the thermal relief valve opens, it will dump to the waste tank.
I appreciate the reply Justin, And by NO means did I intend to stir a pot or get some negative expressions towards you.

The #4 hose I received is short. The instructions were followed to the letter. Still the hose was sort. The new thermal valve needs to be mounted in a very inconvenient and tight spot. The valve itself Cannot be installed without taking the pre installed 1/8 flare adapters. I was not able to install the new flare 90 "L" (#3) and do the install as suggested in your provided diagram. I ended up having remove the top plug and make the connection. Still the hose was short and needed to uses a extension nipple.

I would like to clear up the "never Dump" . I actually got this from a tech at legends brand (I wont say his name cause I am not trying to start trouble) but Honestly I was told many times when I would call and try to figure out the problem. I was told that it "had to be the pressure regulator screen or the manifold screen and orifice that is dirty or plugged" I was told over and over and over that I needed to check and wash the screens. THe tech there at legends had and has a hard time believing that I maintain the machine and clean everything regularly but I do This machine is not cheap, not cheap in materials and not low in cost either over 24k is not cheap. I am not trying to bash you guys but Honestly, I bought the machine in February of 2018, less than a week later (3 days after purchase and install) I was doing a cleaning and My water shut off, I thought I hadnt turn the fresh water on , i went to check and it was on, but I noticed my PSI gauge going 0-400psi cycling up and down, I didnt know what to think. when the water did return I finished the job but the machine did this for 8 times during the job, I delayed me took me 3.5 hours to clean the house that usually took 2.25 hours to complete. the next day I took it to my first appointment and before running the machine on I did a visual check as part of the daily routine. everything was fine. I fired it up and got cleaning and It did it the again but it was a small rug so it didnt take to long, But after I shut the machine down I saw a pool of oil on my van floor, I followed it to the dripping pump/clutch area. I called my distributor and he said to not run the machine anymore and they overnighted a new pump.

I say all of this because after I had the pump replaced I asked the distributor about the psi spike/cycle and they had No clue what it was, so I called Legends and the person there said to clean all screens, and orifice. I asked the rep that it felt as if the water had run out and it went into dump mode, possibly to cool the system or purge. This is when the legends rep said that the machine was made to be dumpless,
I couldnt believe it but he claimed that the machine will Never dump water to the tank.

the problem never went away, once in a while it would not show up and I would take it to the distributor but it was an intermittent problem and they could figure it out. I kept calling legend brand and spoke to tech support but it was the same rep with the same suggestion and with the same statement "Dumpless".

So for me to finally research and learn that there was a possible retrofit kit for my 370SS. For having to suffer with this enigma from 2018 till 2021 it was just not right that LEGENDs brand did not communicate or contact me with a clue or at least mention it to me that there could be a possibility of this issue occurring. Since the first day that I bought the machine I registered it for my warranty so Legends brand had my info but I was never told of the retrofit kit.

after so many attempts of trying to get my local distributors (which are 30 and 40 miles away) to sell me the kit, they didnt know about it or what the heck I was talking about. they kept suggesting a new radiator cap or a flush out service. I finally ended up ordering one from Jon Don. I got it within 1 day.
Im not going to say it is super expensive but just under $200.00 . I dont even know if it has cured the problem, But I think there is Hope because Today Saturday the 15th of May 2021 is the second day I have used my machine with the retrofit kit. and No more issues. Upon inspecting my old thermal valve I found that it was in fact defective and the pinto/needle was loosely sliding no resistance .

I just wish I was told that the machine had a potential design flaw or issue and that there was a possible solution, But everything was kept secret.



I was thinking of purchasing your largest machine but I have now decided to wait on how TMFs machines handle and trying to do more research . No machine is perfect but communication is #1 when it comes to complete customer satisfaction and retention

My greatest worry is that all of spike/cycling might have caused some damage to my water pump because I now found a slight leak of water from the pump head to the pump body. I now wonder if steam has caused damage.

Would love it if Legends would help us owners with at least allowing us access to valuable information and access to kits, or parts. Not cool to restrict us from repairing our tools/equipment.
 

AussieCarpetBloke

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I just wish I was told that the machine had a potential design flaw or issue and that there was a possible solution, But everything was kept secret.



I was thinking of purchasing your largest machine but I have now decided to wait on how TMFs machines handle and trying to do more research . No machine is perfect but communication is #1 when it comes to complete customer satisfaction and retention

My greatest worry is that all of spike/cycling might have caused some damage to my water pump because I now found a slight leak of water from the pump head to the pump body. I now wonder if steam has caused damage.

Would love it if Legends would help us owners with at least allowing us access to valuable information and access to kits, or parts. Not cool to restrict us from repairing our tools/equipment.


I wish it was possible to adjust the water pump belt rather than just fit new belts because, of poor design, once the belt requires adjustment, and an adjustment attempt is made, the belt then rubs in the fittings on the back of the incoming water pressure regulator. Any Ideas Justin????


I wish there was some qualifications or standards for authorised Sapphire/Legends mechanics and service centres to adhere to.

I wish....(I could go on....not going to flog a dead horse)


I HAD THE SAME DUMPING ISSUE WITH MY MACHINE
I REACHED OUT TO JUSTIN FOR HELP

BEGGED HIM TO SELL ME (AIRFREIGHT AT MY COST) THE REVISED KIT DIRECT-AFTER MULTIPLE ATTEMPTS TO ORDER, BACKORDER & SOURCE THE PART THROUGH LOCAL AND INTERSTATE “AUTHORISED” CHANNELS FAILED

THE KIT WAS $350 AU +

HE ADVISED ME NOT TO FIT A $35 CAT DUMP VALVE A LOCAL SUPPLY SHOP HAD AS IT “WASNT ENGINEERED”

TMF members helped me with the cat valve substitute A small brass thread adapter is required, because they engineered their dump valve to be different-not direct fit-this makes you use their proprietary engineered over expensive dump valves, that they didn’t design correctly in the first place, hence requiring the kit.....

The $35 CAT dump valve fixed my problems for 8months when it required replacement with another $35 CAT

It’s sad that the same thing regarding parts & availability through authorised agents here in Australia is the same as it is in the USA

The answer is no matter where in the world you are with your Sapphire Scientific machine YOURE ALL ALONE.....
 
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sbsscn

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I agree I wish Sapphire would be the first major MGF to place adjusters for all of the belts, just as they do in the automotive industry. The blower belts although not too difficult to remove it be nice to have a belt tensioner on there. I recently had the distributor change my blower belts It was not a pleasant experience for me. They took over 4 hours to do what I could have done in 1.5 hours and I know it can be done in lesser time, but since it was the blower and wanted to help my distributor with business I had them do it. I never imagine that it would take that long let alone
cost me over $500 dollars because its not like they had to take the machine apart.

I love the machine but something now tells me the machines were also built with distributors in mind rather than customers 1st and then distributors.
I know id really devote myself to a product if it was made to benefit me. Id easily take my truckmount all of the time to the distributor for service if it wouldnt be so expensive.

I was a bit disappointed to see my distributors tech run the machine to verify what I had requested them to do, to replace both belts. he ran the machine for 3, 5 to tops 7 minutes , shut it off and wait over 1 hour for it to cool down? wow and all of that time I was charged. then slowly work on my TM but dared to stop work on it to work on other jobs and still charge me for the time that it was not worked on. to make matters worst all vacuum lines, and some bolts and fastening nuts were not reinstalled.

Does Sapphire require all of the techs to get trained so that
1: they know how to work on the machine
2: they do it efficiently, correctly and in time
3: Not complain about how the machine is "tough to work on"

I've worked on my machine and its not a complicated machine, a bit technical but not complicated. I personally think its a simple machine but, Im growing a bit disappointed on how Sapphire views the owners, their design and accountability and even how they train repair techs.

Sorry Sapphire but I feel betrayed and let down

I would like to say one final comment about the thermal kit.

WHY Sapphire would you restrict the owner to a repair item part, Why limit us and force use to go through a distributor. I would completely understand if the machines are still under warranty but my machine is way out of warranty jurisdiction and I believe overs owners feel the same.

Could you please stop Monopolizing?
 
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AussieCarpetBloke

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The smoking gun is.....

They designed and engineered a “proprietary part”

Sold by them
for their machine.
With “no other option” for substitute

They admit their self designed part was inadequate/ineffective/defective

Then redesigned a kit to replace said defective “proprietary part”

To fix the issue they then charge the customer hundreds of dollars for effectively a $35 part with 2 small hoses and a couple of fittings.....that’s ONLY IF YOU CAN MANAGE TO PURCHASE THE PART