Least Risky Approach To Red Dye Stain Removal

Spooney

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Hi Guys,

I have read that 2 part reducers and strippers not only take out the dye stain, but can also take out the carpet dye, leaving a lighter patch. I have been using a 2 part dye remover and it has not happened to me yet, but I am worried that it will. I know not to use it on wool. I wanted to bring this up with you guys. How do I use this stuff safely? I always keep a close eye on it and have my wand and a neutralizing spray ready in case the I notice any change whilst doing heat transfer. I will get training soon, but would appreciate any advice you may have to offer. I will write more questions below.

Is there a less risky approach to dye removal? Anyone use a more user friendly method/chemical?

What are some pros and cons of different chemicals and methods that you have tried or know of?

Please tell me about Ammonia, peroxide, oxidizers and others dye removers.



Thank you, and have a nice week end.

Benn.
 
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wandwizard

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I've been using food dye removers since the mid 90's and have never had a problem using each one according to directions whether it was a 2 part like Matrix Red B Gone or a one part like Red 1. I think there is some risk involved when using on wool. Red 1 has special directions for that which is basically cutting the product in half with distilled water. Pros Choice has Red Relief for wool and Stain Magic for wool. Each has a third bottle labelled CSS which is a neutralizer that stops the bleaching action dead in it's tracks. Dyes on wool rugs and carpets are probably the main culprits where you need to REALLY pay SUPER close attention to directions. A signed waiver would be a good idea as well when doing these procedures on high risk fibers like wool.

As far as the peroxide/ ammonia mixes I think there is a much greater risk of actually removing color with those. If you choose to use either an iron and wet towel or a steamer (my preference) you need to pay extremely close attention, particularly on either nylon or wool and even some polyesters. You can get a bit more aggressive on olefins. I very rarely use a steamer with peroxi/ ammonia products. Most often you shouldn't need to. It most definitely is possible to remove color with these products. Realize though that you are trying to remove a stain that would otherwise be impossible to remove. These products actually ARE the SAFER products to use for these purposes. They are oxidizers and reducing agents. Both bleach out these stains just using a different way of doing it. If you ever have a serious question I advise you to call up CTI if you are using their products. Same goes for Jondons' Matrix products or Interlinks' products.They will talk you through it and give you sound advise. I can tell you from years using these products that it is unlikely you'll remove color from the carpet UNLESS you over do it OR the customer has already done something to the stain. I've seen folks using anything literally they can get hold of and throw on a stain, including laundry bleach not to mention the world famous Resolve!!! If you do see color coming out you can pretty much count on it that someone has applied something before you got there. Certain chemicals can cause the dyes to become unstable.
 
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Spooney

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^^what he said. Try the steamer by itself first. The stain may dissapear all by itself.

I've been using food dye removers since the mid 90's and have never had a problem using each one according to directions whether it was a 2 part like Matrix Red B Gone or a one part like Red 1. I think there is some risk involved when using on wool. Red 1 has special directions for that which is basically cutting the product in half with distilled water. Pros Choice has Red Relief for wool and Stain Magic for wool. Each has a third bottle labelled CSS which is a neutralizer that stops the bleaching action dead in it's tracks. Dyes on wool rugs and carpets are probably the main culprits where you need to REALLY pay SUPER close attention to directions. A signed waiver would be a good idea as well when doing these procedures on high risk fibers like wool.

As far as the peroxide/ ammonia mixes I think there is a much greater risk of actually removing color with those. If you choose to use either an iron and wet towel or a steamer (my preference) you need to pay extremely close attention, particularly on either nylon or wool and even some polyesters. You can get a bit more aggressive on olefins. I very rarely use a steamer with peroxi/ ammonia products. Most often you shouldn't need to. It most definitely is possible to remove color with these products. Realize though that you are trying to remove a stain that would otherwise be impossible to remove. These products actually ARE the SAFER products to use for these purposes. They are oxidizers and reducing agents. Both bleach out these stains just using a different way of doing it. If you ever have a serious question I advise you to call up CTI if you are using their products. Same goes for Jondons' Matrix products or Interlinks' products.They will talk you through it and give you sound advise. I can tell you from years using these products that it is unlikely you'll remove color from the carpet UNLESS you over do it OR the customer has already done something to the stain. I've seen folks using anything literally they can get hold of and throw on a stain, including laundry bleach not to mention the world famous Resolve!!! If you do see color coming out you can pretty much count on it that someone has applied something before you got there. Certain chemicals can cause the dyes to become unstable.

Thanks for your informative reply Randy. I have a few additional questions for you if you have the time. Or if anyone could chime in that would be appreciated.

Would that CSS neutralizer work with other carpet types also? I'd imagine so, but I'd better ask you anyway. Also I have a ph neutral encapper but, I'm not sure that it would work as well as the product that you mention.

If a customer has tried to remove the stain before I do, what is the best way to neutralize the area before I get started with my products? Should I apply some anti foam to the area and thoroughly HWE?

Thanks again.

Benn.
 

Spooney

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^^what he said. Try the steamer by itself first. The stain may dissapear all by itself.

Awesome. Now I'm interested to check out these steamers. So, do you just use the steamer on it's own without any white towels to remove dye stains? Or, do you use the steamer and then extract after?

I'll check em out online right now. If any of you guys have any recommendations, please leave a link of you preferences.

Thank you kindly.

Benn.
 

wandwizard

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That's good to hear.

Those steamers you talk of - do they suck the steam back in? I'd imagine they'd be pretty dry anyway. As in, they would not over wet the carpet?

Thanks for your reply.
There are a few steamers being used. I use a Black & Decker wallpaper steamer that can only be purchased on Ebay used. Some use one made by Wagner which is also a wallpaper steamer. You should be able to purchase that locally and Interlink carries it too. http://interlinksupply.com/index.php?item_num=AC210
Namco makes one too specially for this purpose.
http://www.namcomfg.com/namco3/shop/item.asp?itemid=51
 

wandwizard

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Thanks for your informative reply Randy. I have a few additional questions for you if you have the time. Or if anyone could chime in that would be appreciated.

Would that CSS neutralizer work with other carpet types also? I'd imagine so, but I'd better ask you anyway. Also I have a ph neutral encapper but, I'm not sure that it would work as well as the product that you mention.

If a customer has tried to remove the stain before I do, what is the best way to neutralize the area before I get started with my products? Should I apply some anti foam to the area and thoroughly HWE?

Thanks again.

Benn.

The CSS is primarily for use with those products when used on natural fibers. On synthetics you shouldn't need to use it. I would use the regular products like Red 1 or Red Relief, Red B Gone, etc., on synthetics. Follow the directions carefully and you shouldn't have a problem. Personally I've gotten great results with Red 1. I've also used Matrix Red B Gone with excellent results.

If you find the customer has already attempted stain removal with anything I would at least rinse it out thoroughly and try to get it as dry as possible before using a stain removal product on it. In some cases using ph paper or ph meter to test the ph in the fiber would be a good idea if you think there is a residue from a previous attempt at removing the stain.
http://www.proschoice.com/html/stain_magic_wool.html
http://www.proschoice.com/html/red_relief_wool.html
 

Omar

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Awesome. Now I'm interested to check out these steamers. So, do you just use the steamer on it's own without any white towels to remove dye stains? Or, do you use the steamer and then extract after?

I'll check em out online right now. If any of you guys have any recommendations, please leave a link of you preferences.

Thank you kindly.

Benn.
No towell needed. I have 2 steamers. One is the old school Black&Decker wall paper steamer. Works better, but hard to find.. the other is the wagner wallpaper steamer, which can be found at home depot.
 
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Allied

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That's good to hear.

Those steamers you talk of - do they suck the steam back in? I'd imagine they'd be pretty dry anyway. As in, they would not over wet the carpet?

Thanks for your reply.

They do wet the carpet...but not much more than a wand...and I always spot treat before extraction anyway.
 
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envy

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I've only had the carpet lose dye once when removing a red stain. I was using Sapphire Scientific product and since that time have switched back to Pro's Choice.

You mentioned that you keep a close eye on it and ready with the wand but I wanted to share that when it happened to me, and how that wouldn't have helped.

I put the steamer on it and when the stain came out, I moved the steamer to another spot. Then started extracting the room while the steamer worked. When I got to the first (now stain free spot) the carpet lost its color as I made my pass with the wand. Nothing prior to that pass led me to believe that the carpet dye had been released from the fiber.
 
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Spooney

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I've only had the carpet lose dye once when removing a red stain. I was using Sapphire Scientific product and since that time have switched back to Pro's Choice.

You mentioned that you keep a close eye on it and ready with the wand but I wanted to share that when it happened to me, and how that wouldn't have helped.

I put the steamer on it and when the stain came out, I moved the steamer to another spot. Then started extracting the room while the steamer worked. When I got to the first (now stain free spot) the carpet lost its color as I made my pass with the wand. Nothing prior to that pass led me to believe that the carpet dye had been released from the fiber.

Dam.. Why do you think it happened? Is it a case of leaving the product on the carpet for too long? Or too much heat? Fiber type or the product in question?

I am steering towards Pros Choice, as it is the only one that you guys have mentioned that I can purchase here in Australia. You Americans are lucky you Know. You have all the great gear and products, and for HALF the price of what we pay lol.

Thanks for the reply Brayden.
 

envy

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I didn't test the fiber but I'm certain its nylon because it did have the stain and the ability to lose color.

I really don't know what happened. I doubt it was too much heat. The steamer only has one setting. Also don't think the product was on too long because that first one I was monitoring close. I immediately pulled it off the second one and that one lost dye as well.

The product I was using was fairly old but if anything I would think that would make it less effective.

Shortly after that job I made a 600 mile trip to the next spot dyeing class I could find.
 
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wandwizard

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I've only had the carpet lose dye once when removing a red stain. I was using Sapphire Scientific product and since that time have switched back to Pro's Choice.

You mentioned that you keep a close eye on it and ready with the wand but I wanted to share that when it happened to me, and how that wouldn't have helped.

I put the steamer on it and when the stain came out, I moved the steamer to another spot. Then started extracting the room while the steamer worked. When I got to the first (now stain free spot) the carpet lost its color as I made my pass with the wand. Nothing prior to that pass led me to believe that the carpet dye had been released from the fiber.

If that only happened on one, of what sounds like many spots, my best guess is that someone had attempted to remove that particular stain in the past and found out the hard way they couldn't get it out. If so, they would have left a residue behind. On a few occasions I've seen spots that had been treated by a customer with a product they purchased and just going over them with a wand COMPLETELY removed all color from the carpet. In all but one case the carpet was nylon and one just a few years back a frieze polyester. In at least 2 cases I was able to identify the products that caused the problem. Here they are: 1. http://www.meangreendegreaser.com/
2, http://www.dollartree.com/household...ly-Awesome-Cleaner/500c501c502p8056/index.pro

To be fair to the above products both were used improperly AT FULL STENGTH and NOT RINSED OUT. The residue was left in those carpets for months, perhaps years. In each case I simply presprayed the carpets as normal and extracted. Every single spot those products were used on caused COMPLETE removal of the carpet dye. I know for a fact the Mean Green product was used undiluted on dog urine of all things on a nylon carpet. There was no visible dye removal until I went over it with a wand. There have been at least a couple other instances years ago that were similar.
 
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Spooney

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If that only happened on one, of what sounds like many spots, my best guess is that someone had attempted to remove that particular stain in the past and found out the hard way they couldn't get it out. If so, they would have left a residue behind. On a few occasions I've seen spots that had been treated by a customer with a product they purchased and just going over them with a wand COMPLETELY removed all color from the carpet. In all but one case the carpet was nylon and one just a few years back a frieze polyester. In at least 2 cases I was able to identify the products that caused the problem. Here they are: 1. http://www.meangreendegreaser.com/
2, http://www.dollartree.com/household...ly-Awesome-Cleaner/500c501c502p8056/index.pro

To be fair to the above products both were used improperly AT FULL STENGTH and NOT RINSED OUT. The residue was left in those carpets for months, perhaps years. In each case I simply presprayed the carpets as normal and extracted. Every single spot those products were used on caused COMPLETE removal of the carpet dye. I know for a fact the Mean Green product was used undiluted on dog urine of all things on a nylon carpet. There was no visible dye removal until I went over it with a wand. There have been at least a couple other instances years ago that were similar.

Jeepers.. that's really interesting, and good to know for the future., as customers could try to pin something like that on a technician. Thanks for the info.
 

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Jeepers.. that's really interesting, and good to know for the future., as customers could try to pin something like that on a technician. Thanks for the info.
Wizard is right that has happened to me once in last 1.5 years.

Prolly best if one spots before extraction to ensure your stain chem of choice is rinsed out.