Jaguar 8.4 ETM - Mistake | TruckMount Forums #1 Carpet Cleaning Forums

Jaguar 8.4 ETM - Mistake

Nov 21, 2011
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Oleg Dmitriyev
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I've read a lot of good things about the jaguar 8.4 ETM, saw videos of it working and even talked to Ed about it. All seemed promising and was exactly what we needed. We've then went ahead and ordered the unit from Magic Wand. Once the package arrived, we've unpacked it and the unit looked very solid and promising. So we set it all up after reading the whole manual and setting it up step by step. We've then tested it on tile without any solution, with just plain water.

First -1 star was the pressure pump... I could hold my hand an inch away from the jets while the pump was working (max pressure) and it didn't hurt - yes the pump was working properly after it "broke in", and still was weak. The pressure pump was barely spinning the sx-15 tool that we use for tile. It would take an hour to clean a kitchen with that kind of pressure. We used a 1/4" 50' pressure hose.

Second -1 star was the vacuums. When they're both on, they're powerful but with just one of them on, it doesn't do any good.

Third -1 star was the pump out. The little mesh filter that is supposed to keep the debris out of the pump gets clogged so fast in the work field that it becomes useless. It worked fine for the first 15 minutes and then it was barely dripping with 1 vacuum on, once the vacuum was turned off, it was pumping maybe 1/2 gal/min - which is unrealistically slow.

Fourth -1 star was the design it self. It is NOT designed for any commercial tile/grout cleaning (that's all we do). The vacuum exhausts are blowing right into the floor which dries up the solution - dry solution doesn't do any good. The flimsy garden hose connector that came with the jaguar that connects the garden hose to the jaguar was leaking so bad that it was spraying water like 10ft out. The fresh water tank fills up about 2 inches of water before it shuts off the fresh water supply - which causes even more leaking at the connector. The fresh water tank is the same size as the dirty water tank and it only fills up 2 inches which leaves a lot of space that could of been used for the dirty water or something else. Also, the fresh water tank was leaking bellow where all the electrical motors and wires are...

Fifth and FINAL -1 star that puts a cherry on top is customer support. I've called Ed (manufacturer of Jaguar ETM) personally and talked to him about this machine and I've explained to him that we only do tile and grout cleaning (1,000-2,000 SqFt a day). He assured me that I wouldn't have any problems and we'll be working nonstop when cleaning 1000+ SqFt of tile. Well, we only worked nonstop for about 50 SqFt before the "13" gal (10 gal wet) tank gets filled up and the pump out gets clogged and the vacuum starts spitting out foam. Also, Magic Wand charged us 20% restocking fee + shipping for a piece of junk that they sold us that wasn't as described and for some reason it's our fault because we "didn't call them and talked to them about it before purchasing" (yes, that's what the lady on the phone told me at Magic Wand).

We've lost over $1,200 for something that we used once and it was a nightmare. Plus we got an unhappy customer that we had to come back to and re-do the job.

It's NOT for tile and grout cleaning.

My rating of the Jaguar 8.4 ETM is 0/5 stars.

Also, the lady at Magic Wand recommended to us to use their grout cleaner because it doesn't foam up - we use Grout Master.

Disappointed.
 

keep it clean

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Dec 3, 2012
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Did you bother to ask him if you could use a spinner with that pump? Just curious. Its what 800 psi? So why would it hurt your hand to spray it? And you cannot operate most portables with one vac. You have to use both at all times. Unless you have a check valve which i do not think he uses on his stacks. With only 1 vac on you will pull air reverse through the other vac.
 

CCWorks

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If your running only one vacuum motor, and the vacuum motor set up is in parallel. The chance of the one vacuum motor sucking air through the other vacuum motor is great, unless the set up has a check valve.

If your using one vacuum motor and sucking air through the other vacuum motor, your not getting the air flow or vac pressure you should be getting. If the vac is not working, how can you suck water?

Your going to destroy the vacuum motor if there is not a air flow check valve between the 2 vacs set up in a parallel set up.
 
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CCWorks

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A pump rated at 800 PSI will get about 700 PSI.
Water flow, you need to re-jet your spinner to get 800 PSI.

That pump pushes 1 GPM in open flow, Open flow is 0 PSI
If you want 800 PSI you need jets that hold back (restrict) the water flow so the pump can push 800 PSI.
Resize the jets (2 jets) to about 0.2 GMP to get about 500 / 700 PSI.
High water flow and PSI cleans grout lines faster with a chemical.
The pump is not really made for high speed grout cleaning. It lacks High PSI and High Water flow at the same time and uses about 3 amps.
There are better pumps for fast grout cleaning. The better pumps take 12 to 18 amps if electric.

Thanks for the review.
Hope you lean better with out high unexpected payments.
 
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Mama Fen

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Jul 18, 2012
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I've read a lot of good things about the jaguar 8.4 ETM, saw videos of it working and even talked to Ed about it. All seemed promising and was exactly what we needed. We've then went ahead and ordered the unit from Magic Wand. Once the package arrived, we've unpacked it and the unit looked very solid and promising. So we set it all up after reading the whole manual and setting it up step by step. We've then tested it on tile without any solution, with just plain water.

First -1 star was the pressure pump... I could hold my hand an inch away from the jets while the pump was working (max pressure) and it didn't hurt - yes the pump was working properly after it "broke in", and still was weak. The pressure pump was barely spinning the sx-15 tool that we use for tile. It would take an hour to clean a kitchen with that kind of pressure. We used a 1/4" 50' pressure hose.

Second -1 star was the vacuums. When they're both on, they're powerful but with just one of them on, it doesn't do any good.

Third -1 star was the pump out. The little mesh filter that is supposed to keep the debris out of the pump gets clogged so fast in the work field that it becomes useless. It worked fine for the first 15 minutes and then it was barely dripping with 1 vacuum on, once the vacuum was turned off, it was pumping maybe 1/2 gal/min - which is unrealistically slow.

Fourth -1 star was the design it self. It is NOT designed for any commercial tile/grout cleaning (that's all we do). The vacuum exhausts are blowing right into the floor which dries up the solution - dry solution doesn't do any good. The flimsy garden hose connector that came with the jaguar that connects the garden hose to the jaguar was leaking so bad that it was spraying water like 10ft out. The fresh water tank fills up about 2 inches of water before it shuts off the fresh water supply - which causes even more leaking at the connector. The fresh water tank is the same size as the dirty water tank and it only fills up 2 inches which leaves a lot of space that could of been used for the dirty water or something else. Also, the fresh water tank was leaking bellow where all the electrical motors and wires are...

Fifth and FINAL -1 star that puts a cherry on top is customer support. I've called Ed (manufacturer of Jaguar ETM) personally and talked to him about this machine and I've explained to him that we only do tile and grout cleaning (1,000-2,000 SqFt a day). He assured me that I wouldn't have any problems and we'll be working nonstop when cleaning 1000+ SqFt of tile. Well, we only worked nonstop for about 50 SqFt before the "13" gal (10 gal wet) tank gets filled up and the pump out gets clogged and the vacuum starts spitting out foam. Also, Magic Wand charged us 20% restocking fee + shipping for a piece of junk that they sold us that wasn't as described and for some reason it's our fault because we "didn't call them and talked to them about it before purchasing" (yes, that's what the lady on the phone told me at Magic Wand).

We've lost over $1,200 for something that we used once and it was a nightmare. Plus we got an unhappy customer that we had to come back to and re-do the job.

It's NOT for tile and grout cleaning.

My rating of the Jaguar 8.4 ETM is 0/5 stars.

Also, the lady at Magic Wand recommended to us to use their grout cleaner because it doesn't foam up - we use Grout Master.

Disappointed.

To be fair to Ed (who has gotten virtually unanimous positive feedback over the years from his customers), let me play devil's advocate here:

1. I can't imagine a portable capable of handling a full-sized 15" tile spinner. A 12" should work nicely, however. And changing the jet size might help too.

2. I always, ALWAYS tell my guys to run both vacuums. It balances wear and tear and prevents reversal (as described).

3. If pump-out filter is getting clogged that quickly, I'd think that has more to do with debris not being removed from the jobsite before cleaning began. Like with filters on vacuum hoses in TMs.

I can't speak to points 4 and 5 because I have no experience with them. I can say that, in general, buying a porty of ANY type, ETM or otherwise, is not going to get you the power of a full-sized fuel-fired machine, particularly if you're not using both vacuums.
 
Nov 21, 2011
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Oleg Dmitriyev
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When we were using the one vacuum, we blocked the airway to the 2nd vacuum so it wouldn't lose vacuum pressure. The main reason why we only used one vacuum and not the other was because we were using an electric pressure washer that was much more powerful than the one that comes with the jaguar. We did not want to find 3 separate power outlets that were on 3 separate breakers to connect the whole setup because it's something that we wouldn't want to do at every job. We managed to trip a 15 amp breaker when the jaguar was plugged in on its own and with only 1 vacuum and pump-out working.

I've come to a conclusion that in order to make the jaguar 8.4 work for us, we'd have to install a more powerful pressure pump, a more powerful pump-out pump and replace the 2 small vacuums with 1 big one... Jaguar 9000?

@Mama Fen I wish I knew that earlier about the ETMs powering sx-15s, could of saved myself some money. Also, we did manage to get away from the gas powered truckmount. We're fully electric while getting the same results that we did with our truckmount. I've been using a truckmount to clean tile/grout for the last 6 years. The truckmount taught me a lot of mechanical skills :)

@keep it clean yes, I did mention to @Ed Valentine that we use a spinner. The reason why I mentioned the hand not hurting while holding it close to the jets was to show how weak the pressure was. When we were using our truckmount, I'd always keep the pressure at around 800-900 PSI, with that pressure I wouldn't even dare to put my hand close to that jet. I guess it would of helped a bit if the spinner jets were replaced to something smaller (what @CCWorks mentioned), but it would still be too slow for us, plus it still wouldn't help the fact that the pump-out was useless so we'd have to stop every 5 mins to dump the water. We clean about 1,000 SqFt of tile/grout in 2-3 hours (that's with prepping the floor and moving some couches and tables).

PS: I'm not trying to bash on anyone or their work with this post. My main goal is to share my personal experience with an ETM (Jaguar 8.4 in this case) and help others to make a more educated purchase and not doing the same mistake that I did.
 
Nov 21, 2011
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3. If pump-out filter is getting clogged that quickly, I'd think that has more to do with debris not being removed from the jobsite before cleaning began. Like with filters on vacuum hoses in TMs.
The machine was new and it was our first time using it. The filter sticks about 3-4 inches out and is about 1" in diameter. The job wasn't even all that dirty, most of the debris was dust and some minor pet hair. It got clogged after we did about 200 SqFt of it. We do not pre-vacuum tile when cleaning, we never did and never will. We do sweep up the floors if there is a lot of debris though (rarely come across those).
 
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keep it clean

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You will need to use incoming filtration i think mama mentioned it i forget. I use a simple knee high sock in my portable. Just push it through barb and wrap excess over outside of barb. The cuff will hold it in place. As it fills it will hang down into tank. That will keep most of the debris off the pump out. Sediment still gets through. But bulk of it will be caught. Or use one of the pool filter types.

The solution pump i dont think has the gpm to move the spinner. And like cc said you may actually be loosing pressure. Your spinner requires min. 1.5 gpm @700 psi. Possible just a matter of changing to next size down jets will help idk.

I know they say 1- 15a and 1- 20a cord. Always seek out 2 separate 20a circuits. 15a is almost always branched to other rooms, lights and such.
 

Sean M Collins

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3. If pump-out filter is getting clogged that quickly, I'd think that has more to do with debris not being removed from the jobsite before cleaning began. Like with filters on vacuum hoses in TMs.
The machine was new and it was our first time using it. The filter sticks about 3-4 inches out and is about 1" in diameter. The job wasn't even all that dirty, most of the debris was dust and some minor pet hair. It got clogged after we did about 200 SqFt of it. We do not pre-vacuum tile when cleaning, we never did and never will. We do sweep up the floors if there is a lot of debris though (rarely come across those).
If you do not pre vac tile you will eventually regret that because the debris could damage the floor while you’re cleaning
 
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kevinj6121

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I'm a portable guy, Mytee LTD5 to be exact, i also have the mytee air hog vac booster, the one with only one vac motor, same vac motor as in the LTD5

When i bought a spinner tool for tile and grout i knew the 500 psi pump in the LTD5 was not going to cut it at all, but the LTD5 would work fine for the water recovery

I bough the water otter to use with the spinner for my high pressure and the LTD5 for water recovery and just did not turn on the pump in the LTD5

Well when using the spinner tool with the teflon ring on it and the LTD5 for water recovery with both vac motors running it was too much suction and hard to move the spinner

you don't need as much suction for tile and grout as you would for carpet

My solution was very simple

I use the water otter for my high pressure, and the air hog for water recovery, the air hog has auto pump out as well

I use 50 foot of 2 inch vac hose with a 10 foot 1.5 vac hose on the end that connects to the spinner for a total of 60 feet

the suction is good, spinner still locks down on the tile but obviously not as hard as with two vac motors but is more then adequate

the auto pump out on the air hog keeps up fine and i've not had a problem with the mesh filter clogging up, the air hog also has the lint hog filter built into it, water has to pass thru that first before it gets to the little mesh filter thats inside of it

any ways as of today i have the new mytee escape so i'll be using that from now on for all my carpet cleaning

but will still use the water otter for tile and grout
 

Luky

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I've read a lot of good things about the jaguar 8.4 ETM, saw videos of it working and even talked to Ed about it. All seemed promising and was exactly what we needed. We've then went ahead and ordered the unit from Magic Wand. Once the package arrived, we've unpacked it and the unit looked very solid and promising. So we set it all up after reading the whole manual and setting it up step by step. We've then tested it on tile without any solution, with just plain water.

First -1 star was the pressure pump... I could hold my hand an inch away from the jets while the pump was working (max pressure) and it didn't hurt - yes the pump was working properly after it "broke in", and still was weak. The pressure pump was barely spinning the sx-15 tool that we use for tile. It would take an hour to clean a kitchen with that kind of pressure. We used a 1/4" 50' pressure hose.

Second -1 star was the vacuums. When they're both on, they're powerful but with just one of them on, it doesn't do any good.

Third -1 star was the pump out. The little mesh filter that is supposed to keep the debris out of the pump gets clogged so fast in the work field that it becomes useless. It worked fine for the first 15 minutes and then it was barely dripping with 1 vacuum on, once the vacuum was turned off, it was pumping maybe 1/2 gal/min - which is unrealistically slow.

Fourth -1 star was the design it self. It is NOT designed for any commercial tile/grout cleaning (that's all we do). The vacuum exhausts are blowing right into the floor which dries up the solution - dry solution doesn't do any good. The flimsy garden hose connector that came with the jaguar that connects the garden hose to the jaguar was leaking so bad that it was spraying water like 10ft out. The fresh water tank fills up about 2 inches of water before it shuts off the fresh water supply - which causes even more leaking at the connector. The fresh water tank is the same size as the dirty water tank and it only fills up 2 inches which leaves a lot of space that could of been used for the dirty water or something else. Also, the fresh water tank was leaking bellow where all the electrical motors and wires are...

Fifth and FINAL -1 star that puts a cherry on top is customer support. I've called Ed (manufacturer of Jaguar ETM) personally and talked to him about this machine and I've explained to him that we only do tile and grout cleaning (1,000-2,000 SqFt a day). He assured me that I wouldn't have any problems and we'll be working nonstop when cleaning 1000+ SqFt of tile. Well, we only worked nonstop for about 50 SqFt before the "13" gal (10 gal wet) tank gets filled up and the pump out gets clogged and the vacuum starts spitting out foam. Also, Magic Wand charged us 20% restocking fee + shipping for a piece of junk that they sold us that wasn't as described and for some reason it's our fault because we "didn't call them and talked to them about it before purchasing" (yes, that's what the lady on the phone told me at Magic Wand).

We've lost over $1,200 for something that we used once and it was a nightmare. Plus we got an unhappy customer that we had to come back to and re-do the job.

It's NOT for tile and grout cleaning.

My rating of the Jaguar 8.4 ETM is 0/5 stars.

Also, the lady at Magic Wand recommended to us to use their grout cleaner because it doesn't foam up - we use Grout Master.

Disappointed.
Something doesn't feel right. The specs of the portable indicate that it is suitable for providing satisfactory results on tiles& grout. In the past I've used Mytee Speedster 1005 HV ( adjustable 0-500) many times. Sx-12 was achieving nice RPM's, fast enough to see immediate results( suction provided by parallel dual 3 stage motors. Even though Speedster is a good portable, Jaguar is in different league. To hear that you barely feel the pressure, is beyond belief.
I hope that everything gets straightened out for you and you going to love that machine
 

ACP

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if all you do is tile/grout, get a CFX and a water otter.

CFX comes in 1 cord model, has tons of suction at 50ft and its super light you can carry it with 1 hand so you dont have to worry about going up/down stairs. It also has a good solid pump out set up.

water otter will give you all the pressure you need.

super simple set up that you can carry in the job site
 

JRH

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Unfortunately people on forums give this machine superpowers ... 99 Percent never used one .
The best option on the magic wand site would have been the nautilius 1200 ...when set in series u could use just one vac also ...or some custom option with an external pump as mentioned above .
As for venting to ground ...can't see any reason for it other than saving a bit of production time and the cost of a bit of tube .
U were definitely iladvised also .
 
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PistolPete

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Air Hog and water otter pump. 2 15amp outlets only.
Built-in inline vacuum filter with pig sock.
APO built in.
Works fantastic.

You need 2.2gpm to run a spinner.

Sorry, but always do the research before you pull the trigger.
 

Ymetimme

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I've read a lot of good things about the jaguar 8.4 ETM, saw videos of it working and even talked to Ed about it. All seemed promising and was exactly what we needed. We've then went ahead and ordered the unit from Magic Wand. Once the package arrived, we've unpacked it and the unit looked very solid and promising. So we set it all up after reading the whole manual and setting it up step by step. We've then tested it on tile without any solution, with just plain water.

First -1 star was the pressure pump... I could hold my hand an inch away from the jets while the pump was working (max pressure) and it didn't hurt - yes the pump was working properly after it "broke in", and still was weak. The pressure pump was barely spinning the sx-15 tool that we use for tile. It would take an hour to clean a kitchen with that kind of pressure. We used a 1/4" 50' pressure hose.

Second -1 star was the vacuums. When they're both on, they're powerful but with just one of them on, it doesn't do any good.

Third -1 star was the pump out. The little mesh filter that is supposed to keep the debris out of the pump gets clogged so fast in the work field that it becomes useless. It worked fine for the first 15 minutes and then it was barely dripping with 1 vacuum on, once the vacuum was turned off, it was pumping maybe 1/2 gal/min - which is unrealistically slow.

Fourth -1 star was the design it self. It is NOT designed for any commercial tile/grout cleaning (that's all we do). The vacuum exhausts are blowing right into the floor which dries up the solution - dry solution doesn't do any good. The flimsy garden hose connector that came with the jaguar that connects the garden hose to the jaguar was leaking so bad that it was spraying water like 10ft out. The fresh water tank fills up about 2 inches of water before it shuts off the fresh water supply - which causes even more leaking at the connector. The fresh water tank is the same size as the dirty water tank and it only fills up 2 inches which leaves a lot of space that could of been used for the dirty water or something else. Also, the fresh water tank was leaking bellow where all the electrical motors and wires are...

Fifth and FINAL -1 star that puts a cherry on top is customer support. I've called Ed (manufacturer of Jaguar ETM) personally and talked to him about this machine and I've explained to him that we only do tile and grout cleaning (1,000-2,000 SqFt a day). He assured me that I wouldn't have any problems and we'll be working nonstop when cleaning 1000+ SqFt of tile. Well, we only worked nonstop for about 50 SqFt before the "13" gal (10 gal wet) tank gets filled up and the pump out gets clogged and the vacuum starts spitting out foam. Also, Magic Wand charged us 20% restocking fee + shipping for a piece of junk that they sold us that wasn't as described and for some reason it's our fault because we "didn't call them and talked to them about it before purchasing" (yes, that's what the lady on the phone told me at Magic Wand).

We've lost over $1,200 for something that we used once and it was a nightmare. Plus we got an unhappy customer that we had to come back to and re-do the job.

It's NOT for tile and grout cleaning.

My rating of the Jaguar 8.4 ETM is 0/5 stars.

Also, the lady at Magic Wand recommended to us to use their grout cleaner because it doesn't foam up - we use Grout Master.

Disappointed.[/QUOTES
My son and I use our Jag all the time for cleaning tile my experience has been the opposite the machine works just fine we use a 12 inch turbo spinner we did put in smaller Jets 1.5 . Far is it blowing onto the floor where do you want to come blow
 

Ymetimme

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I use a Jaguar 8.4 coming tile all the time a lot of guys have bad tile cleaning techniques they don't sweep floors first. They don't pre agitate the floor machine or CRB or pre scrub or grout brush. I am at there are limitations to an EMT you have to think of it more as I'm rinsing tool. I can do just as much work with it as I could with my tradition truck mount there is a learning curve though but I prefer it
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