I'm switching methods | TruckMount Forums #1 Carpet Cleaning Forums

I'm switching methods

rob allen

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I'm sorry Rob
Remember Bill I keep the method and mini van on hand. If I need it then so be it. But it's more of a tool to keep them on the phone longer so as to land more jobs. Kind of like a "loss leader" that retail has been using for years.
 

rob allen

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what a terrible video, the carpet looked new , what was the point?
I can't agree more David. Notice they even left the tag on the pad on the stairs? Piss poor video and music choice. Yes carpet was clean already. Dumb video. But thats not my point.

My point is many franchises are marketing this stuff. On some carpets you can get away with it. We all know it works on CGD and can improve some residential. Here is the kicker. We live in an area that is flood with military bases. So home turn over is constant as military transfers them every few years. Many are on a budget and instead of turning them away I wanted something to offer to fill the gap. But the kicker is that hardly anyone goes with it. They almost always opt for the HWE. So it is a win win for us.
 
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Jeffdzr

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Rob, great points.

Almost like having a low ball company. Your just giving them different options and helping them out and your bottom line. I too have wondered when cleaning some military move outs, man this carpet is clean, do I really need to drag all these hoses out and around to clean clean carpet. Or just offer them a Low moister cleaning option for a better price.




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2012scr

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Rob it is and has been in the Que. the problem is many other video projects have taken precedent. Then came ICE out if nowhere. I'll work on it though.

In the meantime I have a devoted mini van for low moisture. The odd thing is when offered 1 of the 3 that we offer most everyone chooses the #2 HWE option. The cool thing is it keeps the client on the phone longer by having a lower cost option. This allows more time for them to get to know and trust us. This in turn raises the close rate. It's a win win. Hope this helps for now.




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Do you give estimate over the phone most of the time ?
 

Paul Brown

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Rob,

After using and evaluating the Trinity OP for several months on residential as well as commercial carpets on carpets for upscale clients that I've HWE'd with a rotary jet machine in the past, I wouldn"t make VLM the loss leader in your system. I have had a surprising number of satisfied residential clients happily write checks for the results I've achieved with VLM protocol at .55 sf and have also been called by their friends from referrals.

In my opinion, you denigrate the effectiveness of the system/protocol when you make it a loss leader. That alone makes it a second class system. The benefits of the process: a more through removal of embedded linty soils and hair, the high velocity wiping of soils from each side of the fiber, super quick drying times coupled with a highly reduced potential for wicking, mildew, and effective pile/nap restoration are persuasive selling points.
I offer in methodology that I can provide, and am happy to explain the strengths of each system, but my SF prices are the same.
 

Lefty724

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While I respect Paul B as a cleaner (and fellow cyclist) very much, I take whatever he says with a grain of salt. He seems to be a big time kool-aid drinker. No offense Paul...at all.

I think you (Paul) just have the ability to make whatever tool you have work to the best of its ability? I have the same problem. I can clean with anything out there and achieve great results. I always have to take a step back and wait until I get out of the "honey moon" phase.

I have no doubt that the Trinity is a great (if not the best?) OP machine, but to say that it cleans as well if not better than rotary extractors is just crazy IMO.

I was at one time 100% VLM and still use VLM everyday, but there is no comparison. Period.

VLM is a big part of my business, but I now use it as a maintenance clean.
 
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Robbdny

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For one week,with one truck all set to go. We are putting a Brush Pro crb in a wrapped van and sending a tech out. Want to see what kind of response we get along with results. If we have to follow up with truck mount we will for re-dos. Ballsy but curiosity has got me. I bleed HWE. Let's see if I can bleed VLM. Our procedure will be simple;

Prevac with dust collectors
Pre-spot
Pre-spray w/strong encap
Scrub well w/Brush Pro (blue brushes)
Post vac w/dust collectors

Suggestions appreciated. Wish us well. I will report back my findings afterwards.
Rob,
Could you please fill in the blanks for everyone?
Are you using CRB Stand Alone only?
Is Your Process the same?
You said it you charge less then per HWEsq' ?
What where your biggest surprises and what were your biggest disappointments?
EVERYONE KEEP IN MIND HE INTENDED TO USE A CRB MACHINE ONLY, GUTSEY!!

I know your a busy man but I have been waiting to hear and see results since the beginning of this post at least give us a better taste? I thought that was the purpose of this project your company is in a unique position to add an extra van and a worker and run an experiment. And please I meant no dis-respect in anyway by what I am saying.

A picture of your VLM with your wrapped van with the equipment that you found works best along with your process would be great. If you traveled to SC I would pay to have your crew clean my personal house with all methods offered just to learn but I am most interested in the VLM and secondly are you still using a Brush Pro CRB with blue brushes withe the process outlined


PLEASE ROB DONT KEEP US HANGING.....PLEASE FILL IN THE GAPS PROS and CONS and hour of your time and expertise will enlighten many of us.

Thank You Very Much For Spending The Time And Spending The Money!
Robb
 
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Paul Brown

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While I respect Paul B as a cleaner (and fellow cyclist) very much, I take whatever he says with a grain of salt. He seems to be a big time kool-aid drinker. No offense Paul...at all.

I think you (Paul) just have the ability to make whatever tool you have work to the best of its ability? I have the same problem. I can clean with anything out there and achieve great results. I always have to take a step back and wait until I get out of the "honey moon" phase.

I have no doubt that the Trinity is a great (if not the best?) OP machine, but to say that it cleans as well if not better than rotary extractors is just crazy IMO.

I was at one time 100% VLM and still use VLM everyday, but there is no comparison. Period.

VLM is a big part of my business, but I now use it as a maintenance clean.
Good comment, Robb. Until I ran a Trinity large orbit OP, I would have agreed with you. In many cases the Trinity is as effective as HWE with a good rotary extractor. It took using and evaluating one to be able to say this. In some cases, the Trinity is a great first step before rotary jet extraction. Each system has both a sweet spot of efficiency balanced by other considerations, such as drying time, setup time, noise, type of soil load, carpet material.

I started using OP machines in 1999 in commercial buildings, I bought my first Whittaker and Rotowash R 4 CRB's about the same time. I sold Oreck Commercial OP machines, Argo pads and Chemicals, from 2000-2004 to cleaners all over the country. I generally tend to get my nose down in the carpet with a magnifying glass to evaluate what's actually going on and keep track of how long the carpets look good. I have a column on my invoice where I list prespray, rinse at what dilution ratios so I can see how effectively the protocol performed over time when I return to clean again.

A CRB standalone system is great for interim maintenance, for pile lifting, for effectively scrubbing in encap or prespray, but I personally wouldn't recommend that for quality comprehensive cleaning. It lacks the ability to effectively remove fine particles unless you are spreading some absorbent media to impact, adsorb (mechanically entangle) and absorb soil particles. Then you have to remove the media, which can be a chore in itself. As a first step before running an OP or HWE, it is very effective and can be a big time saver.

A 3/8" orbit OP.... I have two, Oreck Lowboy and Orbitec Defender, can do an effective job on residential if you are careful, observant, use effective chemicals and do a thorough job. Those machines, though, lack the intensity of oscillation that a large orbit OP machine does.
One of the things that can make any orbital machine more effective, is the degree of wobble measured at the edge of the drive plate. This vertical "wobble " weighs and unweights the carpet at a super high rate of speed creating cycles of compression and rebound that so hock soils loose from the base of the carpet. This compression cycle, coupled with the twisting moment...torsional flexing of the fiber at the same time, with an effective cleaning agent and pad choice will strip fibers or soil amazingly well. When the range of orbit is increased, the drive plate must move much further in the same fraction of a second. It stops , changes direction and starts again. The impact cycle as well as the amount of pile flexing and fiber plying is greatly enhanced. I thought I knew OP pretty well, but the large orbit Trinity gave me a fresh insight and perspective about what an OP could really do on some soil conditions. It wouldn't be my first choice on carpet fibers with lots of soap residue from prior poor cleaning. It could achieve good results but in some situation a rotary jet extractor and lots of hot water flushing will give much better and faster results in the same amount of time.

The results I've been able to achieve using the large orbit OP on many residential carpets have astounded my clients. They are thrilled with the results and short dry time. That is a plus in winter or rainy seasons.

So there ya are....

This kool aid is pretty tasty! Now, I think I'll go hide under the sink along side the can of Comet! Lol
 
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Lefty724

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LoL!

Again, no offense Paul. I always love reading your posts and really think you are one of the higher end cleaners around here...it really doesn't matter what method you choose.

I'm also sippin the kool aid right now with a new to me 360i. I honestly believe that when using my etm/360i...I'm getting the carpet the cleanest it's going to be.




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Qwikdry

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While I respect Paul B as a cleaner (and fellow cyclist) very much, I take whatever he says with a grain of salt. He seems to be a big time kool-aid drinker. No offense Paul...at all.

I think you (Paul) just have the ability to make whatever tool you have work to the best of its ability? I have the same problem. I can clean with anything out there and achieve great results. I always have to take a step back and wait until I get out of the "honey moon" phase.

I have no doubt that the Trinity is a great (if not the best?) OP machine, but to say that it cleans as well if not better than rotary extractors is just crazy IMO.

I was at one time 100% VLM and still use VLM everyday, but there is no comparison. Period.

VLM is a big part of my business, but I now use it as a maintenance clean.
but isn't all carpet cleaning just maintenance cleaning? all carpets just get dirty again and again. Their are some things I like about VLM, I do believe that people doing It improperly give it a bad reputation for some customers. however, like paul has said, their are actually a lot of customers that like it better because of the dry time and it gives great results. each type of cleaning can be effective if done properly. Their are some cleaners that make HWE look bad as well, because they leave carpets too wet, or make carpet stretch after every cleaning. I have customers tell me this.. I like both methods, but I have to say VLM dry time is a lot better, also CRB as a stand alone is not good IMO. you need pads to actually transfer soil..
 

Lefty724

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Yes to a point. Maintenance cleaning is for the cleaner stuff and I still use VLM everyday for these types of jobs.

Where HWE comes in is on the rat nasty jobs where you would have to use 10 pads + if you're using VLM.

HWE is just more efficient and flushes more soil IMO.


Not trying to start a method war here. Again, I still use VLM all the time. There is just a certain time for it.


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Rick J

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For me, and I have been doing both for a while. When doing VLM it takes longer. Not only in a residential setting but also in doing CGD.
I don't encap and run but use absorbent pads.
 
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Ryankettering

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Yes to a point. Maintenance cleaning is for the cleaner stuff and I still use VLM everyday for these types of jobs.

Where HWE comes in is on the rat nasty jobs where you would have to use 10 pads + if you're using VLM.

HWE is just more efficient and flushes more soil IMO.


Not trying to start a method war here. Again, I still use VLM all the time. There is just a certain time for it.


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I seemed to not do well with the 360.. idk maybe it was just me. I didn't like it.

but you know me. I am vlm till i die.

to be honest, I don't really care which cleans better.. I could do a vac, then crb, then op, then 360, then op again, then crb again.. but I just don't charge enough for that... so i think it really comes down to what works within our business model and what we can charge and profit with.
 

Lefty724

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I seemed to not do well with the 360.. idk maybe it was just me. I didn't like it.

but you know me. I am vlm till i die.

to be honest, I don't really care which cleans better.. I could do a vac, then crb, then op, then 360, then op again, then crb again.. but I just don't charge enough for that... so i think it really comes down to what works within our business model and what we can charge and profit with.
Ya not sure where your 360 went wrong?

My 360i has 100% been the best purchase I've made for my business. If I would have listened to a few friends and bought the 360i first, it would have saved me a lot of money lol.

Lately I've been mostly HWE. Even on cgd, I'm wanding it first, then following with releasit DS as a post pad/protector. Getting the best results so far. I am definitely charging for this service....if they don't like the price (for dual method), then I will just use VLM. I explain the benefits....

It's really nice to have different options for each situation.


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