RAW Prespray

Preferred Vendor
Sep 29, 2011
587
194
43
Nashville TN
evercleantn.com
Real Name
Brandon B
Business Location
United States
2-Butoxyethanol, also known as Glycol Ether, EB, Ethylene glycol monomethyl ether to name a few, is a non-biodegradable petroleum-based solvent that is in most carpet cleaning pre sprays. So how much Butyl Ether will affect your internal organs? I’ll use a very popular powdered pre spray as an example, but I won’t list its name. This 6 pound jar has up to 10% Ether, per its MSDS sheet. One 16 ounce serving in a 5 Quart In-line sprayer puts a carpet cleaner at twice the risk of breathing and absorbing the amount of Ether the Center of Disease Control (CDC) says can cause kidney and liver damage among with other illnesses.


So how much is 300 to 600 ppm? The short answer is about 8 ounces of this popular Pre Spray, but the recommended usage is double that at 16 ounces! If a 5 Quart In-line Sprayer puts out 11.25 gallons of this diluted detergent, which I estimate will do 2 or 3 jobs, I will have likely breathed and absorbed up to 1200 ppm Butyl Ether that day. Again, that’s twice the amount that causes internal damage per the CDC. Now if I do 2 to 3 jobs daily, 5 or 6 days a week, I will have likely exposed myself to over 7,200 ppm throughout the week – that’s 6,900 ppm over what OSHA recommends as the maximum threshold for an 8 hour shift which is only 50 ppm per day!

If your pre spray contains Ether, and it probably does, post it's name below and I'll reply with my best estimate as to how much you're supposed to use daily to stay below the OSHA limit or the the 299 ppm no-threat zone.

___________________________________________________________________
For those fact checkers, I used a ppm calculator along with this worksheet:
11.25 gallons x 1200 ppm = 13,500/1,000,000 = .0135 ppm
If I premix 16 ounces of this popular pre spray into one gallon, it will contain 1.6 ounces of Ether (a 92 ounce jar has up to 10% Ether content or 9.2 ounces per jar). So 9.2 ounces divided by the total amount of servings per jar equals 1.6 ounces of Ether per serving (92 ounces / 16 ounce servings = 5.75 servings per jar. 9.2 ounces Ether / 5.75 servings = 1.6 ounce Ether per 5 Quart In-line Sprayer. Knowing that one prefilled gallon has 1.6 ounces of Ether, or 1.25% Ether content, I convert that to the decimal .0125.
.0135 ppm threshold /.0125 = 1.08 gallons of this premixed pre spray or basically one 16 ounce serving. Note: These numbers are believed to be accurate based on relevant information posted both publicly and by private entities. I make no guarantee to their exact accuracy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mustangcarpet

Jose Holguin

Premium VIP
Oct 20, 2012
12,462
4,362
113
35
Vail, CO
Real Name
Jose Holguin
Business Location
United States
2-Butoxyethanol, also known as Glycol Ether, EB, Ethylene glycol monomethyl ether to name a few, is a non-biodegradable petroleum-based solvent that is in most carpet cleaning pre sprays. So how much Butyl Ether will affect your internal organs? I’ll use a very popular powdered pre spray as an example, but I won’t list its name. This 6 pound jar has up to 10% Ether, per its MSDS sheet. One 16 ounce serving in a 5 Quart In-line sprayer puts a carpet cleaner at twice the risk of breathing and absorbing the amount of Ether the Center of Disease Control (CDC) says can cause kidney and liver damage among with other illnesses.


So how much is 300 to 600 ppm? The short answer is about 8 ounces of this popular Pre Spray, but the recommended usage is double that at 16 ounces! If a 5 Quart In-line Sprayer puts out 11.25 gallons of this diluted detergent, which I estimate will do 2 or 3 jobs, I will have likely breathed and absorbed up to 1200 ppm Butyl Ether that day. Again, that’s twice the amount that causes internal damage per the CDC. Now if I do 2 to 3 jobs daily, 5 or 6 days a week, I will have likely exposed myself to over 7,200 ppm throughout the week – that’s 6,900 ppm over what OSHA recommends as the maximum threshold for an 8 hour shift which is only 50 ppm per day!

If your pre spray contains Ether, and it probably does, post it's name below and I'll reply with my best estimate as to how much you're supposed to use daily to stay below the OSHA limit or the the 299 ppm no-threat zone.

___________________________________________________________________
For those fact checkers, I used a ppm calculator along with this worksheet:
11.25 gallons x 1200 ppm = 13,500/1,000,000 = .0135 ppm
If I premix 16 ounces of this popular pre spray into one gallon, it will contain 1.6 ounces of Ether (a 92 ounce jar has up to 10% Ether content or 9.2 ounces per jar). So 9.2 ounces divided by the total amount of servings per jar equals 1.6 ounces of Ether per serving (92 ounces / 16 ounce servings = 5.75 servings per jar. 9.2 ounces Ether / 5.75 servings = 1.6 ounce Ether per 5 Quart In-line Sprayer. Knowing that one prefilled gallon has 1.6 ounces of Ether, or 1.25% Ether content, I convert that to the decimal .0125.
.0135 ppm threshold /.0125 = 1.08 gallons of this premixed pre spray or basically one 16 ounce serving. Note: These numbers are believed to be accurate based on relevant information posted both publicly and by private entities. I make no guarantee to their exact accuracy.

People are vaping glycol ether, ingesting it, voluntarily. Don't think many actually care.
 

wandwizard

Randy Dockins
Premium VIP
Nov 12, 2008
9,237
3,836
113
Real Name
Randy Dockins
Business Location
United States
If all that is true, how can a prespray like Grand Slam which I've used for like 20 years have a health rating of 1? Btw, I'm definitely not insensitive to cumulative effects. I truly believe my brother has Parkinson's as a direct result of cumulative effects of breathing solder for many years since he is the only one in our family to ever come down with Parkinson's. I also have a brother-in-law who also came down with Parkinson's that is also likely work related. He painted auto's for years for GM. Nobody else in his family has ever had Parkinsons so I seriously doubt it's genetic in either of those cases. I do take this seriously I just don't know of any real proof that butyls may cause serious health problems after years of use.

Grand Slam sds, http://https://shop.truckmountforums.com/media/pdf/msds_docs/MS-MX-GSSCFF.pdf
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lloyd O'Brien

RAW Prespray

Preferred Vendor
Sep 29, 2011
587
194
43
Nashville TN
evercleantn.com
Real Name
Brandon B
Business Location
United States
If all that is true, how can a prespray like Grand Slam which I've used for like 20 years have a health rating of 1? Btw, I'm definitely not insensitive to cumulative effects. I truly believe my brother has Parkinson's as a direct result of cumulative effects of breathing solder for many years since he is the only one in our family to ever come down with Parkinson's. I also have a brother-in-law who also came down with Parkinson's that is also likely work related. He painted auto's for years for GM. Nobody else in his family has ever had Parkinsons so I seriously doubt it's genetic in either of those cases. I do take this seriously I just don't know of any real proof that butyls may cause serious health problems after years of use.

Grand Slam sds, http://https://shop.truckmountforums.com/media/pdf/msds_docs/MS-MX-GSSCFF.pdf
Because 1 sells better than 2. No, I'm kidding, sort of. What's grand slam's mix rate? If that SDS is accuate, that's the most Ether I've seen in a pre spray yet.
 

RAW Prespray

Preferred Vendor
Sep 29, 2011
587
194
43
Nashville TN
evercleantn.com
Real Name
Brandon B
Business Location
United States
People are vaping glycol ether, ingesting it, voluntarily. Don't think many actually care.
probably only a small amount, below the limit. I used some LA's Awesome the other day just being lazy. My lungs were sore for hours after.
 

wandwizard

Randy Dockins
Premium VIP
Nov 12, 2008
9,237
3,836
113
Real Name
Randy Dockins
Business Location
United States
Because 1 sells better than 2. No, I'm kidding, sort of. What's grand slam's mix rate? If that SDS is accuate, that's the most Ether I've seen in a pre spray yet.
Actual instructions is to mix at 4 to 6 oz. per gallon. I'm typically at 3 to 4 oz. per gallon.
 

wandwizard

Randy Dockins
Premium VIP
Nov 12, 2008
9,237
3,836
113
Real Name
Randy Dockins
Business Location
United States
if what you say is true,, I am a dead man !!! I just don't know it yet
Same here! We should start a club. Call it DOA or something catchy. I have had a few things I've inhaled in the past, talking about cleaning chems here just to be clear, that I wished I hadn't. One prespray back in the 90's darn near put me in the ground. Not kidding. The scary thing about it was it literally took seconds.
 

jtsunbrite

Premium VIP
Sep 4, 2015
8,001
4,483
113
60
Houston, Texas
Real Name
jeff kessler
Business Location
United States
Same here! We should start a club. Call it DOA or something catchy. I have had a few things I've inhaled in the past, talking about cleaning chems here just to be clear, that I wished I hadn't. One prespray back in the 90's darn near put me in the ground. Not kidding. The scary thing about it was it literally took seconds.
I have breathed in damn near everything this industry has to offer and im sure it wasn't good.

DOA gang !!
 
  • Like
Reactions: mustangcarpet

akleenerimage

Active Member
Jan 29, 2012
539
196
43
Ohio
www.akleenerimage.com
Real Name
Joe Orcutt
Business Location
United States
Fortunately it's may not be too late for those of you that are worried. There is some pretty cool work being done about stem cell regeneration and body repair going on by our own bodies from doing what they call a fasting mimicking diet. Here is a link for any that may care


Sent from my Pixel XL using TMF Forums mobile app
 

RAW Prespray

Preferred Vendor
Sep 29, 2011
587
194
43
Nashville TN
evercleantn.com
Real Name
Brandon B
Business Location
United States
if what you say is true,, I am a dead man !!! I just don't know it yet
It's not what I say, but what the professional tests show along with what's listed on all SDS's that contain Ether.

It's a travesty that some of these pre sprays have scary names like "Flame Thrower" or "Thunder Death" but the SDS basically says "Oh, now make sure not to go over 50 parts per million, which is about, hmmm, one bedroom."
 

RAW Prespray

Preferred Vendor
Sep 29, 2011
587
194
43
Nashville TN
evercleantn.com
Real Name
Brandon B
Business Location
United States
Actual instructions is to mix at 4 to 6 oz. per gallon. I'm typically at 3 to 4 oz. per gallon.
Ok, to be as fair to the makers of Grand Slam as possible, I'm showing my work just in case there's a mistake, but considering THEIR SDS says that only .03 of an ounce is the LD50 (lethal dose that kills half the test rats) I'm confident my numbers are correct.

In one 128 oz bottle of grand slam contains up to 11% Ether. That's 14.08 ounces in one bottle. If each serving is 4 ounces, then each bottle has 32 servings. 14.08 ounce Ether / 32 servings = .44 ounces Ether per 4 ounce serving is .34% Ether (.44/128 oz per gallon = .0034 or .34%) 600 ppm in 1 gallon is .0006 (1x600 ppm=600/1,000,000 = .0006). So: .0006/.0034 = .18 gallons which equates to 23 ounces.

That means .18 gallons (23 ounces) of your RTU gallon has up to 600 ppm of Ether in it. Keep in mind, you're not fully ingesting this, but Ether is easily absorbed into the skin as well as respiratory system. How many ppm you're breathing or absorbing is likely impossible to find out, but considering it only takes a .03 oz to kill a rat, is it worth it?

Thinking about the Lethal Dose, if a rat weighs 6 pounds and it's LD is 917 milligrams ( .03 of an ounce), how much to kill a 180 pound man? I'm just guessing here, but if a 180 pound man weighs 30 times a rat, then .03 of ounce x 30 should be around the LD, which is .9 of ounce or basically an ounce. Crazy carpet cleaning there.
 

RAW Prespray

Preferred Vendor
Sep 29, 2011
587
194
43
Nashville TN
evercleantn.com
Real Name
Brandon B
Business Location
United States
Same here! We should start a club. Call it DOA or something catchy. I have had a few things I've inhaled in the past, talking about cleaning chems here just to be clear, that I wished I hadn't. One prespray back in the 90's darn near put me in the ground. Not kidding. The scary thing about it was it literally took seconds.
Listen to this, we quite using an iron to get red stains out years ago because the fumes were so bad. Since then I haven't lost any jobs over telling customers we can only get about 80% of your red stains out. I tell them there are companies that can get them all out, but they still choose us. Why? I think it's because they see we have integrity in our health which may relay the level of service we aim to deliver. Just a theory, but to date, we haven't lost any jobs over it. Granted, my red stain customers significantly decreased when I raised my minimum to $140.
 

RAW Prespray

Preferred Vendor
Sep 29, 2011
587
194
43
Nashville TN
evercleantn.com
Real Name
Brandon B
Business Location
United States
I have used redline liquid masterblend is that fairly safe product
Based on it's SDS it looks fairly safe. It doesn't contain Ethers or petro-surfactants which is good for the environment if you're open draining. It does have phosphates which causes eutrophication (algae blooms) in lakes, ponds and waterways.
 

aloha one

Scrub a DUB DUB!
Feb 17, 2009
30,329
8,327
113
California
Real Name
Dave Moonan
Business Location
United States
Listen to this, we quite using an iron to get red stains out years ago because the fumes were so bad. Since then I haven't lost any jobs over telling customers we can only get about 80% of your red stains out. I tell them there are companies that can get them all out, but they still choose us. Why? I think it's because they see we have integrity in our health which may relay the level of service we aim to deliver. Just a theory, but to date, we haven't lost any jobs over it. Granted, my red stain customers significantly decreased when I raised my minimum to $140.
Please tell me how you get 80% of dye stains out with out a heat source.
Don't even try to snow this snowman!;)