Fiberlock Shockwave on Carpet?

Silas

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Hello ladies and gents,

I'm still learning the industry and have a question- Is it practical to use Shockwave to "disinfect" carpet? I have a customer requesting this (use of Shockwave) along with a carpet cleaning. If so, should this be applied beforehand and allowed to work previous to the cleaning? I've read the Shockwave label where it states in some applications to allow it to dry. I'm thinking perhaps apply the Shockwave, dwell, apply prespray and clean? Could anyone offer a quick summary as to its use with carpet, or is that even recommended?

TIA for any assistance!
 

Silas

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Thank you Odin. I figured the idea to be somewhat suspect but understand that someone who treated mold present on the walls suggested it and Shockwave by name. This may be to provide the owner with piece of mind; I didn't know if there was some legitimate, recommended technique of applying this to carpet. Apparently this area of the home was closed up without adequate air circulation. I'm making no claims as to success in treatment to the owner, this being wholly his request.
 

Mama Fen

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Thank you Odin. I figured the idea to be somewhat suspect but understand that someone who treated mold present on the walls suggested it and Shockwave by name. This may be to provide the owner with piece of mind; I didn't know if there was some legitimate, recommended technique of applying this to carpet. Apparently this area of the home was closed up without adequate air circulation. I'm making no claims as to success in treatment to the owner, this being wholly his request.
Shockwave is a quaternary ammoniated disinfectant, and as such its use is regulated by the Federal government. The user MUST follow all directions on the label, as noted below:

Special Instructions for Cleaning Carpet Against Odor Causing Bacteria: This product may be used in industrial, institutional, commercial and residential areas such as homes, motels & hotel chains, nursing homes, schools and hospital. For use on wet, cleanable synthetic fibers.
Do not use on wool.
Vacuum carpet thoroughly prior to cleaning.
Test fabric for color fastness.
For portable extraction units: Mix 1 ounce of this product per gallon of water.
For truck mounted extraction machines: Mix 24 ounces of the product per gallon of water and meter at 4 gallons per hour.
For rotary floor machines: Mix 2 ounces of this product per gallon of water and apply at the rate of 300-500 sq. ft. per gallon.
Do not mix this product with other cleaning products.
Follow the cleaning procedures specified by the manufacturer of the cleaning equipment.
After using this product, set the carpet pile and protect the carpet from furniture legs and bases while drying. Do not over wet. If applied to stain resistant nylon carpet, apply a fabric protector according to the carpet manufacturer’s directions


In other words, you must vacuum, apply, groom, allow dwell time, and only then can you do the cleaning. DO NOT spray cleaning agents directly over wet quats.

Since virtually every part of the label requires that the surface to be treated must be clean and dry prior to use, it stands to reason that it wouldn't make much sense to 'disinfect' carpet if it's already clean and dry. Thus the manufacturers have a bit of a built-in safety net; mold and bacteria do not flourish in clean dry environments, after all, so at best a pro would make a claim of sanitizing or deodorizing.

Quats are popular with restoration companies because they are inexpensive to use; however, ANY antimicrobial carries risks to both the professional and the customer, and as such it is important to get a signature verifying informed consent before applying.

Sometimes people "feel better" if you spray something down after a job, but weigh carefully the balance between serving the customer's best interests and simply pleasing them.

I am not a fan of using antimicrobials unless absolutely necessary; like antibiotics, over-use in the field could lead to long-term problems like health issues or microbial resistance.
 

Robert86

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I am not a fan of using antimicrobials unless absolutely necessary; like antibiotics, over-use in the field could lead to long-term problems like health issues or microbial resistance.

Absolutely this. I have friends with various health issues that they will have forever due to exposures to Quaternary disinfectants. Inhaling atomized quats can damage the mucal membrane liner of your nose, throat and lungs. I have actually seen guys walking out of a bathroom after cleaning with a quat with blood running from their noses and ready to pass out. That was the result of severe misuse. Mix and apply exactly how they tell you too. Wear shoe covers, gloves, glasses and respiratory protection. Tell the client that they will be unable to occupy the house during treatment and I'd highly advise against contact with the carpets until they are dry.
 
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Silas

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Thanks to you both, Mama Fen and Robert86. This goes a long way toward understanding the inherent risk involved and also how to approach this situation; serious stuff all the way around. I very much appreciate your replies.
 

Mama Fen

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Thanks to you both, Mama Fen and Robert86. This goes a long way toward understanding the inherent risk involved and also how to approach this situation; serious stuff all the way around. I very much appreciate your replies.
Like any other tool in the toolbox, quats can be extremely effective (and profitable) when used correctly. But if used in a manner for which they are not intended, or even when they are not strictly necessary, the results can be devastating.
 
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Silas

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Thank you once again, Mama Fen. Is there a default, go-to product for the seasoned pros here in such applications as this? I was looking at hypochlorous acid but don't know how effective it may truly be and again, it's designed for hard, non-porous surfaces. I'm not a"greenie", but believe Shockwave is something I'll avoid using. I've read of vinegar being effective, but after all this is the Internet:confused:. I get the impression that mold survives in the neutral plus-or-minus pH range and wondered if a high pH pre-spray might be effective, or at least play heck on any mold present. The owner doesn't know with certainty that there is any mold in the carpet, but apparently had found some on a wall in the room.
 
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Mama Fen

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Thank you once again, Mama Fen. Is there a default, go-to product for the seasoned pros here in such applications as this? I was looking at hypochlorous acid but don't know how effective it may truly be and again, it's designed for hard, non-porous surfaces. I'm not a"greenie", but believe Shockwave is something I'll avoid using. I've read of vinegar being effective, but after all this is the Internet:confused:. I get the impression that mold survives in the neutral plus-or-minus pH range and wondered if a high pH range pre-spray might be effective, or at least play heck on any mold present. The owner doesn't know with certainty that there is any mold in the carpet, but apparently had found some on a wall in the room.
Mold requires the same things we do to grow - warmth, food, and moisture. Without all three, mold has a hard time thriving. Our houses are made of food (most common molds only consume cellulose, or plant material, and as such aren't terribly interested in human flesh), and summer temps tend to be warm, so controlling humidity is the best option. All other factors like pH are secondary to this.

The number one factor in indoor mold growth BY FAR is high humidity.

Mold spores are virtually omnipresent, and since they are not 'alive' in the strictest sense they are difficult to track. They only cause growth when they land on a conducive surface (food, warmth, moisture). Air scrubbers and high-quality HVAC filters can trap spores that are present in the home... but they can't do anything about spores that come in every time a door or window is opened, or piggyback in on someone's shoes or clothing. So humidity control again becomes our best weapon against growth.

If your customer is insisting on a biocide to make themselves feel better, try to go with the least toxic products possible. For example, thymol is very popular right now under different brand names - Benefect and Bioesque are two that we see in this area - and Benefect Decon 30 in particular is labeled for use on soft surfaces like carpet and upholstery. Keep in mind that it is still a biocide, and thus must still be used with caution.

Some people spend way too much time on the internet and terrify themselves over things that, in reality, are well within our ability to manage. Common sense is often the best answer. Rather than worrying about "oh no, which kind of mold is it, is it the toxic black stuff I read about, am I gonna die?!?", it makes more sense to see mold as the symptom of a problem - the problem being humidity - and tackle that humidity problem, at which point the symptom is lessened or eradicated. We have lived side-by-side with saprophytic molds since we learned to stand up and build shelters; you'd think it would have killed us all off by now, with the way social media presents it. And yet somehow we keep on chuggin'.

If this is something you run into regularly, I'd suggest getting some professional training on water damage and mold remediation, as taking responsibility for any mold or moisture problem without the proper training and education can lead to liability issues down the road. Internet forums are a great place to get ideas and bounce suggestions off of each other, but when it comes to taking responsibility for the health and/or quality of life of another person, it's always best to get your info from a certified professional source.

And if you make a claim to sanitize, disinfect, or remediate microbial growth for a customer, you are, in their eyes, taking responsibility for any potential problems they may have down the road.

So proceed with caution.
 

Rick J

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Mama,
what do you think of Mediclean germical cleaner./ Used to be Microban Germicidal cleaner. I just noticed recently the name change. LOL!
But again, another chemical. But labeled for the use. Need a magnifier to read the label.:)
 

Mama Fen

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Mama,
what do you think of Mediclean germical cleaner./ Used to be Microban Germicidal cleaner. I just noticed recently the name change. LOL!
But again, another chemical. But labeled for the use. Need a magnifier to read the label.:)
Mediclean (green label) is a quat just like Shockwave or Milgo 1-2-3. Quats are popular due to their relatively low cost, but as noted about the Shockwave you MUST follow the directions precisely.

Most antimicrobials that are found in this industry are going to be one of a very few specific chemical compounds. Various trade names make it seem as if there are an overwhelming variety out there; in truth, if you read the labels a great many of them are almost identical.

The most frequently used are quats, phenolics, peroxides, thymols (which are also a member of the phenol family), and sodium carbonate solutions. There are others, of course, but these make up about 95% of the market in this area (and I must assume other areas are at least similar).

Each one has drawbacks and each one has stengths - it is up to the professional to do their research and figure out which to use (if any) in any given situation. Some offer residual activity and detergency, others offer low toxicity and virtually no environmental impact. Some are better for trauma or sewage losses, others are better for mold and light-duty applications.

Always make sure you read the label, look up the SDS, and familiarize yourself thoroughly with ANY biocide before using it.

Just like cleaning chemicals, a lot of biocides try to make themselves sound like they're "one of a kind" and "the best" and "unique"; the fact of the matter is, ANY biocide must go through rigorous testing and approval by the government before its release, and so most of them are just re-packaged versions of things that are already approved and field-tested.

Don't fall for hype or popular opinions when it comes to biocides - use data and facts to make your decisions. Most biocides are very capable of doing you and your customer EXTREME harm if not used correctly.


 
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Robert86

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Mediclean (green label) is a quat just like Shockwave or Milgo 1-2-3. Quats are popular due to their relatively low cost, but as noted about the Shockwave you MUST follow the directions precisely.

Most antimicrobials that are found in this industry are going to be one of a very few specific chemical compounds. Various trade names make it seem as if there are an overwhelming variety out there; in truth, if you read the labels a great many of them are almost identical.

The most frequently used are quats, phenolics, peroxides, thymols (which are also a member of the phenol family), and sodium carbonate solutions. There are others, of course, but these make up about 95% of the market in this area (and I must assume other areas are at least similar).

Each one has drawbacks and each one has stengths - it is up to the professional to do their research and figure out which to use (if any) in any given situation. Some offer residual activity and detergency, others offer low toxicity and virtually no environmental impact. Some are better for trauma or sewage losses, others are better for mold and light-duty applications.

Always make sure you read the label, look up the SDS, and familiarize yourself thoroughly with ANY biocide before using it.

Just like cleaning chemicals, a lot of biocides try to make themselves sound like they're "one of a kind" and "the best" and "unique"; the fact of the matter is, ANY biocide must go through rigorous testing and approval by the government before its release, and so most of them are just re-packaged versions of things that are already approved and field-tested.

Don't fall for hype or popular opinions when it comes to biocides - use data and facts to make your decisions. Most biocides are very capable of doing you and your customer EXTREME harm if not used correctly.
Something I'll note to people who are using or considering using a biocide, especially if the situation doesn't call for it, is that they are pesticides. The EPA certifies and regulates them as such. That little bit of information puts a very different outlook on those products. They aren't just strong disinfectants anymore, they are poisons.
 

Mama Fen

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Something I'll note to people who are using or considering using a biocide, especially if the situation doesn't call for it, is that they are pesticides. The EPA certifies and regulates them as such. That little bit of information puts a very different outlook on those products. They aren't just strong disinfectants anymore, they are poisons.
The suffix -cide (as in biocide, insecticide, homicide, suicide) in contents labeling comes from the Latin caedere, meaning "kill" (so the above examples translate roughly to "kill living thing", "kill insect", "kill man", "kill self").

Keep in mind that branding is vastly different from contents labeling - as such, brand names with -cide in them like Odorcide are simply playing up on this association and are not necessarily kill agents.

All true -cides, regardless of brand name, are essentially poisons. They are kill agents. The Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act, or FIFRA, is the program put into place by the EPA to regulate production and distribution of all -cides in the USA.

It may seem a little overboard to some, but keep in mind the horrifying impact of chemicals like DDT and the so-called Rainbow Herbicides used in Vietnam - it is imperative that poisonous substances be regulated to avoid illness, environmental devastation, and death.


 
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Silas

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Tardy but no less heartfelt thanks here for your last reply to my query, Mama Fen, and for the continued discussion here from others. All of this is duly noted and will be taken into account on all future jobs of this nature.

Thanks again to one and all.
 
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Robert86

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Tardy but no less heartfelt thanks here for your last reply to my query, Mama Fen, and for the continued discussion here from others. All of this is duly noted and will be taken into account on all future jobs of this nature.

Thanks again to one and all.
It's funny, I was just talking with someone from a local hospital about this subject. They were getting a Quaternary disinfectant from their supplier and on an inspection the guy locked them out of the dispenser and ordered all unopened jugs be returned. They don't want them anywhere in the hospital, a bleach solution is preferred over quats as it's regarded as safer and effective against a wider range of things. Their stock room is now filled with clorox products for disinfecting and sanitizing needs.

Just thought that was interesting.
 
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