Deadly presprays

sbsscn

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Those are readily available in the sds read it.


I think some how you got all this twisted.


Here are some highlights for you to better understand my comments.


The toxic warnings written on those papers are most of the time law requirements that surpass the ridiculousness of the world we live in. As mentioned by Tom, even coffee has to be listed in prop 65.

.


So now you lost me.

Everything/anything can be toxic without a doubt

But When you posted to the forum you made it seem that robs formulas are also toxic or have toxic ingredients.

I am concerned about the toxicity of a product, and I was led to believe that a SDS/MSDS are to provide information on its toxicity to humans, environment, fire emergency.

I will continue to believe that.

Anything can harm you, but if a particular ingredient is used to make a product and that product can be absorbed into our bodies and be difficult to remove or will have a negative or make a toxic reaction to our bodies and health, then Yes I want to know, No not teased, but KNOW.

there are products that are down right toxic and dangerous and we as end users have the right to know. If something has passed the guidelines and has received certification that it is safe,
the SDS should not have a problem providing what is in the product and if there any effects in ingested, inhaled or applied or even if ignited.

If someone where to tell me oh you can spray hydrogen peroxide at a low diluted solution and inhale it, it wont harm you, id say You are full of it. If air having impurities can harm me then why would i think breathing a certain ingredient alone wont harm me at all?
 
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sbsscn

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I'd say let's learn how to share the world and move on. And I repeat, If you want me gone, just tell me I'll leave or push the button yourself my friend. Believe me , I don't like being were I'm not wanted; unfortunately, There are a lot of people who appreciate my being here and feel that my comments are useful or amusing. I like spending time with them.

Have a good day now.

Im not trying to get in the mix, but
You are making and taking this a bit personal. If he called johnny names
I would think youd be a bit mature and not let that effect you judgement or feelings towards Rob

If hes doing it then why should you lower yourself to that standard?

if thats the case then are You not doing the same?

How are you any better?

I say this not to stir the pot but just to express my observation.
Peace
 

sbsscn

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Please give us some valid input on this so we can have a descent educational thread.

If it is a level 5
then THANK YOU for opening my eyes Cause I wont be buying it

Level 5 is horrible
level 2 is bad

both are not good

but one of them will mess you up 3 levels more than the level 2

almost like a hurricane

Category 1 is bad
but Category 5 is really, really, really, really, REALLY BAD!

Could both kill you? you betcha!

but out of those 2 one of them will guarantee you death
 

wandwizard

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Some encaps make you cough immediately and your customers dash out of the room

I just have one way to deal with that. If it bothers me or any customer it's gone. I may use up what I have on empties if it doesn't bother me, but other than that it never gets purchased again. For me, the two main offenders in categories have been presprays and deodorizers. Sometimes a customer won't say a word even if it bothers them, but they just never call you back. If I use a new product, particularly deodorizers, I try to be especially careful with it and get customer input. I also know of carpet cleaners who have lost clients over primarily their poor choice, or improper use, of deodorizers.
 

Scott W

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When discussing toxicity, it is also important to notice the "route of entry" being covered. For example, Product A may be harmful if ingested. Then certainly don't swallow it. Make sure it is not out where customers kids or pets could get to it. Product B maybe listed as harmful if inhaled. That can also be prevented with a proper respirator. But, it might not be as easy to prevent Product B from getting into the body.

Whatever you chose to use - Use it properly and in harmony with directions given. As cleaners, we get daily exposure to products that our customers are exposed to maybe once in 12 or 18 or 24 months. Good ventilation when using or mixing most cleaning products is important. For some products, you also need to wear gloves because dermal (skin) contact can be a route of entry and the product produces an irritation if it gets on the skin.
 

rob allen

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Bio Pro is Level 1.
 
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sbsscn

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read Scot's comment above before you come to conclusions. there is a reason why those are classified and those are not always "valid reasons"

If its bad to breath/inhaled it Cannot be good, Especially if you have to wear a respirator inside the house and your customer is aware of it.

If its bad for your skin to make contact with it cannot be good either as applying it with a sprayer will get it in the air and some particles will land on you, worst residue can and will be left behind and in the end you are exposing your clients to this stuff.

I use to hear a sales person at a supply house say " yeah its not safe to breath or touch but you're suppose to apply it to the carpet not on YOU!, once rinsed out and dry its completely safe"
That cannot be safe, and that is not true, anyone that says that they can 100% remove all soil and product is not being realistic.
 

sbsscn

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For me it is VERY Important that I be honest
#1 to myself
#2 to my client


If there is any doubt
Then It will not be taken into my clients house.

I have a small wash plant, and my clients know that things change unless they request full Green offsite cleaning. But at my plant I have PPE, respirators, chem gloves, full face masks, filter, ventilation and a very well controlled environment, all rugs are washed, fully submerged and therefore I can say rugs are left clean, but I cannot say the same for onsite cleaning
 
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sbsscn

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Martin I really mean this,

Thank you for this topic, I am really learning.

I like to keep things safe, and simple. I am glad we as cleaners are opening our eyes and looking deeper into this. In the long run I think being informed and having knowledge will help us live healthier lives, which is good for our families and good for making more money
 

rob allen

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Drinking a cup table salt will kill you. We have some spinmasters with one goal, to attempt to slow another’s success.
 

rob allen

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Overall Bio Pro is a 1.
 

BigPapa

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Drinking a cup table salt will kill you. We have some spinmasters with one goal, to attempt to slow another’s success.
I'm sure you my friend take the hits( your out in front afterall )...but we as the consumer need to see, evaluate, and process what is out there...This board ( thanks to you and your son ) give us that.

Martin ( by the way I think I have met you ), brings up some good info.
Martin...How long you been in the buis?
 

Jim Davisson

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My .02
Application does matter for inhalation. Pressure, jet size and jet type affect droplet size. The difference of atomization is significant between my off the shelf hydroforce at 500 psi with an 8006 fan jet and my custom 150 psi adjustable hollow cone jet with it's much larger droplet size. This is easy to see with the right afternoon sun coming through the window. Spraying stairs going up as well as working from the farthest point in a room quickly back out the door is better as well IMO. While diluted amounts of what we regularly use isn't terrible, long term exposure should be considered for how you are laying down your prespray especially other with adjuncts in it.
 

ACP

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The real truth is that pretty much all carpet cleaning pre sprays would not hold up to OSHA standards if used the way every carpet cleaner uses them.

Maybe you could pre spray 1-2 rooms and be okay, anymore OSHA would say PPE is required... but what carpet cleaners are unionized and protected by these organizations LOL none.


Most carpet cleaners think of safety of chems in terms of "it gives you cancer" or not. This is an extremely uninformed way of thinking, chemical exposure in low-medium levels actually affects your body WAY more than you think.

It spikes estrogen levels in men, it causes fatigue, lowers testosterone, increases cortisol (weight gain) etc Cancer being probably the worst but if you ever wonder why your sooo exhausted from carpet cleaning, keep in mind it may not be just the physical labor.... your likely experiencing low levels of toxicity from chem exposure.

Ever wonder why carpet cleaners, who do sooo much physical labor are mostly overweight?

How many overweight roofers or carpenters do you see?

Cleaning with heavy chems fatigues your body and a natural human reaction to fatigue is to eat eat eat... heavy greasy comfort food.
 

Kernm0512

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It seems everyone is getting in on the prespray bandwagon. Like anything else there will be good, bad and downright ugly. I’ve always been a whistleblower in the industry and catch a lot heat from it. I’ve caught industry brews using optical brighteners, cationic’s, acids, hypochlorite bleach’s, oven cleaners, outdoor only concrete cleaners and a long list nasty stuff in homes. That’s one of the reasons why they ban me everywhere. Also the reason I started making my own products. Many products ruin carpet protectors, degrade fibers and are a serious health hazard. It’s about money.

It’s so cheap to make the toxic stuff and offer payoffs or samples. Yes they clean but damage every thing in their path. Not convinced? Check this out. Here is an SDS of a product being used for carpet cleaning online and pushed by certain individuals. Many get kickbacks while turning a blind eye to the hazards of the products they push. Speaking of blindness, check this prespray SDS below. Then look further down and compare TMF RSF Spiked SDS…

Sample SDS of an online carpet cleaning prespray;
-Causes skin corrosion
-Causes eye damage and complete blindness
-Aspiration hazard
-Flammable, keep from heat, sparks, electric equipment and smoking
-Hazardous, very toxic to aquatic life with lasting effects
-Fatal if swallowed
-Fatal if breathed in airways
-Avoid breathing dust/fume/gas/vapors or spray or mist
-Use explosion proof equipment and non sparking tools
-Avoid release into environment
-Use only in well ventilated areas
-Wear protective clothing/8” eye protection and visor/face protection
-Causes severe skin burns
-In case skin contact wash for 15 mins and call poison center
-In case eye contact rinse eyes immediately for 15 mins and call poison center
-Causes severe skin burns, blistering and tissue destruction
-Causes severe eye cornea damage, eye ulcerations, tearing, impaired or complete loss vision

View attachment 79866



Now lets look at RSF Spiked with Groutmaster…
-Eye contact-Direct contact may cause irritation
-Skin-Wash if any irritation
-Specific personal protection required-None
-Toxicological Info-None
-Ecological Information-None

View attachment 79952

That’s it. I can make nasty toxic brews but prefer to responsibly make and use higher quality safer “indoor” solutions. How did I find out about this? One cleaner and one child has attributed getting sick to using it. Can you say lawsuit for you and them? But if they are small garage mixer with no insurance you are screwed. Think about it. Yes it costs a few pennies to use more safer chemistry like RSF Spiked per house but think about what you want around you, your techs and clients children and pets. Can you say mega lawsuit waiting to happen? Using improper products can ruin your health and a business quickly so choose wisely. Yes like we tell clients who shop price, don’t be penny wise and dollar foolish.

*** Brian does my head to head tests with other brands. I always tell him to follow the SDS and instructions for proper application and personal protection. I walked in yesterday and he was testing a couple brands. I laughed but he said “man this stuff is scary, says wear all this and I did cause it says causes complete blindness, skin corrosion and fatal twice on label”...


TMF Prespray Line Up

View attachment 79953
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The recent string about hazards of traffic lane cleaners raises interesting questions. Additional thoughts on the topic:

  • It is no surprise that various chemicals have varying levels of hazard. When selecting any cleaning product, the business owner needs to consider all aspects of a product including effectiveness, cost, ease of use, and obviously safety to oneself and to one’s customers. If any given product seems too hazardous, the marketplace has a huge number of alternates from which to choose.
  • The question of toxicity is also quite important. I suggest it is not in the interest of anyone using chemicals to term some substances as toxic and others non-toxic. The toxicologist would say there is no discreet break point at which any substance falls neatly into one of those categories. A simple example is botulism toxin. This substance has an incredibly low LD50 value. (LD50 is a common measure of toxicity in which the lower the number the greater the hazard.) Indeed botulism toxin, also called by the trade name Botox®, is one of the most toxic substances known. When properly used, however, it is a potent pain reliever and cosmetic.
  • The issue of warnings on Safety Data Sheets (SDSs) is also quite interesting. The GHS standards that have come into effect over the past few years have had a profound effect on the design, display, complexity and length of these documents. As Tom mentioned, many well run chemical companies use third party generation software to generate SDSs. This is because of the complexity of regulations and the calculations. The regulations themselves are often what drive certain warnings to appear on the SDS.
  • Also remember that SDSs describe the concentrated product as sold but not the ready to use solution. Some manufacturers take the additional step of posting such RTU SDSs. It's a lot of extra work of course.
  • The discussion of rust removers is also interesting. Certainly acid fluorides must be handled carefully. They are quite effective but require, as does any tool, proper PPE and work process for safe handling. How the subject of spot and stain removers fits into a thread about preconditioning agents is a bit confusing, however, that’s the beauty of conversation: topics can range as widely as the imagination of those participating in that conversation.
 

rob allen

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The real truth is that pretty much all carpet cleaning pre sprays would not hold up to OSHA standards if used the way every carpet cleaner uses them.

Maybe you could pre spray 1-2 rooms and be okay, anymore OSHA would say PPE is required... but what carpet cleaners are unionized and protected by these organizations LOL none.


Most carpet cleaners think of safety of chems in terms of "it gives you cancer" or not. This is an extremely uninformed way of thinking, chemical exposure in low-medium levels actually affects your body WAY more than you think.

It spikes estrogen levels in men, it causes fatigue, lowers testosterone, increases cortisol (weight gain) etc Cancer being probably the worst but if you ever wonder why your sooo exhausted from carpet cleaning, keep in mind it may not be just the physical labor.... your likely experiencing low levels of toxicity from chem exposure.

Ever wonder why carpet cleaners, who do sooo much physical labor are mostly overweight?

How many overweight roofers or carpenters do you see?

Cleaning with heavy chems fatigues your body and a natural human reaction to fatigue is to eat eat eat... heavy greasy comfort food.

I agree, so I recommend a steady diet of Groutmaster.

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