CRB VS.............HEAT!!! | TruckMount Forums #1 Carpet Cleaning Forums

CRB VS.............HEAT!!!

Odin

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I'm not saying anything bad at all about courtney. I like him and his videos. Hes very professional.
My beef was how slow he had to do his strokes in this video to remove the dirt.
When I use my CRB the dirt becomes very uniform and the carpet one color. That's because it all suspended and broken down because it's been scrubbed loose from the fibers.
And I agree, CRB would have been a deeper cleaning.
Also, CRB would have ate up the dwell time as well. No dwell time needed......
OK idiots

looks like he is filming with one had on his phone how fast can you wand
 

wandwizard

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OK idiots

looks like he is filming with one had on his phone how fast can you wand
I couldn't do that period and wand I don't think unless I had some kind of headcam on. :)
 
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ACP

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I'll get a lot of shit for this, but I've posted it before. I had a lady with a standard residential polyester carpet and 5 dogs.

I vacuumed, pre-sprayed, CRB, and wanded the carpet. Didn't look too great to me so I pulled out the Rotovac. DID NOT PRESPRAY AGAIN. Just simply the rotovac.

Pulled the dirt right out. Was able to write "Hello" in her carpet with the rotovac when the wand barely improved it. Sometimes its flushing power and not so much scrubbing that matters.
That's because nothing flushes as well as a rotary... doesn't matter what flow your running on a wand.

Most carpets a wand is excellent after pre scrub but some really thick carpets the wand is the wrong tool, doesn't have enough weight and doesn't encapsulate the heat.


We don't run into these carpets too often but yesterday we happened to have 2 that absolutely required the 360i. One was a super thick older nylon, shaggy white carpet with dog oils and also old residue. Oil and dirt embedded in all sides of the fibers and deep into the backing.

2nd was a move out with lots of colored stains and urine. This job would have taken hours without high heat and a 360i, we didn't have to use any special spotters or red removers

The one thing many cleaners fail to realize about high heat is if it's encapsulated in a 360 or zipper your able to steam out all sorts of reds, blues, greens, yellows just like if your using a steam iron on each spot.


These 2 situations the 360 is a huge time saver. 2nd one we steamed out probably 12-15 red stains, flushed out deep urine in 10 areas+

No water clawing, no steam iron, no special spotters.
 
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Fedri

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I'll get a lot of shit for this, but I've posted it before. I had a lady with a standard residential polyester carpet and 5 dogs.

I vacuumed, pre-sprayed, CRB, and wanded the carpet. Didn't look too great to me so I pulled out the Rotovac. DID NOT PRESPRAY AGAIN. Just simply the rotovac.

Pulled the dirt right out. Was able to write "Hello" in her carpet with the rotovac when the wand barely improved it. Sometimes its flushing power and not so much scrubbing that matters.
completely agrees, I have seen that post of yours. I love my rotory trex as well and on rat nasties I do use it, it has been just over a year without a crb for me and I sure don't miss it although it is a great equipment to have in the truck.

I had a similar situation
About 5 years ago I have gone to a banquet hall after they have called me to do a small demo, the company wasn't able to clean the carpet properly, so I have taken my wand and my rotory machine. They asked me to clean the most traffic area, I sprayed the the cleaner let it dwell, I have used the wand and then to compare on the other line I have sprayed and dwell and use the rotovac which I owned 5 years ago and it was a lot more brighter, this is because of more water flow as Jim mentions it all the time when he has the opportunity. Water flow made a huge difference, cleaned better.
 
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Clean-n-mean

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Above 1.5 gpm is high flow. Running 3/8" on the portable I'm at 1.75 gpm @150 psi keyed through the wand. I can get above that with the TM if I want with 3/8" from the TM pump to the wand. Typically I set the pressure at 300 psi keyed. I don't always need it, but have it when needed. The ball valve on the solution line is always there to choke the flow if necessary. We clean 25% faster and do less strokes per hour, day, year which is great
Ok so did a little 60 second test today with my wand and then pump on.
Wand is mach 12 with 4 jets. Jet size is 110015 soooo 1.5 gpm.
Pump is ametek 500 psi pump.
@ 200 PSI 60 seconds I get 3 liters
@ 300 PSI 60 seconds I get almost 1 gallon
@ 400 PSI 60 seconds I get almost 1 gallon
@ 500 PSI 60 seconds I get almost 1 gallon
My jets are too small. Jets are not clogged. Bypassed the heater and same numbers!
Measured with 25' 1/4 solution line.
Should I try 2 gpm jets??
 

Clean-n-mean

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Ok so did a little 60 second test today with my wand and then pump on.
Wand is mach 12 with 4 jets. Jet size is 110015 soooo 1.5 gpm.
Pump is ametek 500 psi pump.
@ 200 PSI 60 seconds I get 3 liters
@ 300 PSI 60 seconds I get almost 1 gallon
@ 400 PSI 60 seconds I get almost 1 gallon
@ 500 PSI 60 seconds I get almost 1 gallon
My jets are too small. Jets are not clogged. Bypassed the heater and same numbers!
Measured with 25' 1/4 solution line.
Should I try 2 gpm jets??
 

mrotto

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Wow!!! So you prespray twice???
no, I would first flush most of the soil out with just the wand. Then I would go through the cleaning steps. the reason being that if you lay your prespray on a rat nasty and then CRB to me it would seem like your grounding in all that dirt which would make it harder to extract, thus get 80 percent of the dirt out with the wand and the rest with the cleaning procedures. Doesnt take that long to do either because your charging for it anyway.

Plus the added benefit of more dwell time
 

OxiFreshGuy

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no, I would first flush most of the soil out with just the wand. Then I would go through the cleaning steps. the reason being that if you lay your prespray on a rat nasty and then CRB to me it would seem like your grounding in all that dirt which would make it harder to extract, thus get 80 percent of the dirt out with the wand and the rest with the cleaning procedures. Doesnt take that long to do either because your charging for it anyway.

Plus the added benefit of more dwell time
Mrotto I'll posit you a different way of thinking about this - when you put water on top of dirt you just created a little bit of mud. The purpose of the chemical is to help "suspend" the dirt so it can be "extracted". Pre-spraying and CRB will not ground the dirt in, in fact it will do the opposite and cause soil suspension to happen faster.

In cases where the CRB doesn't work, it's because the "weight of water" is needed to remove the higher soil load. Think of the carpet having so much oil and dirt that the wand simply can't "flush" it out, so therefore it requires a higher "flow" of water to "flush" it out.
 

Jim Davisson

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Ok so did a little 60 second test today with my wand and then pump on.
Wand is mach 12 with 4 jets. Jet size is 110015 soooo 1.5 gpm.
Pump is ametek 500 psi pump.
@ 200 PSI 60 seconds I get 3 liters
@ 300 PSI 60 seconds I get almost 1 gallon
@ 400 PSI 60 seconds I get almost 1 gallon
@ 500 PSI 60 seconds I get almost 1 gallon
My jets are too small. Jets are not clogged. Bypassed the heater and same numbers!
Measured with 25' 1/4 solution line.
Should I try 2 gpm jets??
You are going to have to change a few things other than just jets to get up to the capacity your vacuum system is currently capable of. Start with the pump, namely the suction side. Increase the diameter of the hose if necessary, it will pay dividends fastest, if it's choked down, kinked, has restrictive fittings, etc... Once it can really eat check your open flow. For example my weinie parallel 170 psi aquatecs with ⅜" Neptune solution hose has an open flow @ 50' of 3 gpm, but I can only get 1.75 gpm to the floor. My wand is 14 flow, 4 jets... 03 outboard jets and 04 inboard jets. I had to replace the restrictive line on the wand from the trigger valve to the jet manifolds with ⅜" copper tubing to "earn" more flow and drill out the top hat strainer.

Listen, I know that I am going to take a beating here about this, I always do and I don't care. The vacuum system is more than capable of processing an additional 1-1.5 ozs per second (yes I said ounces) and our carpets dry just the same as before. The guys here that have never tried it, bark the loudest and have no idea what they are missing and always assume I clean only rat nasties or some other BS work. These same guys tout the 360 in the same sentence, I'd like to see them clean with it hooked up to our TM's lol One pass cleaning at the right wand speed in some areas, cleans better with less labor. I choose to work smarter and faster, but I have seen the difference and can't go back.
 

Clean-n-mean

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You are going to have to change a few things other than just jets to get up to the capacity your vacuum system is currently capable of. Start with the pump, namely the suction side. Increase the diameter of the hose if necessary, it will pay dividends fastest, if it's choked down, kinked, has restrictive fittings, etc... Once it can really eat check your open flow. For example my weinie parallel 170 psi aquatecs with ⅜" Neptune solution hose has an open flow @ 50' of 3 gpm, but I can only get 1.75 gpm to the floor. My wand is 14 flow, 4 jets... 03 outboard jets and 04 inboard jets. I had to replace the restrictive line on the wand from the trigger valve to the jet manifolds with ⅜" copper tubing to "earn" more flow and drill out the top hat strainer.

Listen, I know that I am going to take a beating here about this, I always do and I don't care. The vacuum system is more than capable of processing an additional 1-1.5 ozs per second (yes I said ounces) and our carpets dry just the same as before. The guys here that have never tried it, bark the loudest and have no idea what they are missing and always assume I clean only rat nasties or some other BS work. These same guys tout the 360 in the same sentence, I'd like to see them clean with it hooked up to our TM's lol One pass cleaning at the right wand speed in some areas, cleans better with less labor. I choose to work smarter and faster, but I have seen the difference and can't go back.
Jim,
Thanks for the great info!! I have to agree with you fully. And I was afraid you where going to say my line on my wand from the valve down to the spray bar(SINGLE LINE TOO) was going to have to be changed!!
So you are saying jim that my 1.5 jets are NOT too restrictive and it's all the other areas combined.
It's crazy, I can hear the pump really hunkering down when I turn up the pressure. That's why I assumed it was my jet size.
 
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Clean-n-mean

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Hell I might as just as well leave it on 3-350 for bow and save my pump. I'm not getting anymore flow out the jets!!!
 

Clean-n-mean

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Jim you said top hat strainer. Is there a strainer or filter in my wand trigger anywhere?? If there is, I have never removed it!!
I have taken the strainers out of all 4 jets and they had quite a bot of rust in them.
Thanks
 

mrotto

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Mrotto I'll posit you a different way of thinking about this - when you put water on top of dirt you just created a little bit of mud. The purpose of the chemical is to help "suspend" the dirt so it can be "extracted". Pre-spraying and CRB will not ground the dirt in, in fact it will do the opposite and cause soil suspension to happen faster.

In cases where the CRB doesn't work, it's because the "weight of water" is needed to remove the higher soil load. Think of the carpet having so much oil and dirt that the wand simply can't "flush" it out, so therefore it requires a higher "flow" of water to "flush" it out.
I know that saying well, water and dirt make mud, as I used to use HOST and said that all the time to my customers (because we learned that at the HOST school) BUT look at what I said. Since there is so much soil, I would just wand it first. Im not adding water to dirt, Im immediately extracting most of the soil. Then the regular cleaning process is more effective.

Kinda like taking a plate full of dried pizza sauce and rinsing it before putting it in the dishwasher.
 
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ACP

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I know that saying well, water and dirt make mud, as I used to use HOST and said that all the time to my customers (because we learned that at the HOST school) BUT look at what I said. Since there is so much soil, I would just wand it first. Im not adding water to dirt, Im immediately extracting most of the soil. Then the regular cleaning process is more effective.

Kinda like taking a plate full of dried pizza sauce and rinsing it before putting it in the dishwasher.
It makes sense what your saying but if your pre vacing really slow and really well with a powerful vac then all that is really left is oily soils etc which kind of need a pre spray to suspend.

Especially if your running a CRB and really digging out all the deep down gunk
 

ACP

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Hell I might as just as well leave it on 3-350 for bow and save my pump. I'm not getting anymore flow out the jets!!!
I would keep your psi around 300 or so with a porty... higher psi especially with your mach wand (jets are very close to the carpet) you'll start to inject too much water into the backing on some carpet types... that will definitely cause some over wetting.

With pretty much all carpets your only cleaning about 1 inch of a fiber, you don't need tons of water to do that you just need to efficiently release/suspend the soil and then rinse it away... ideally with the best dry times possible.

If your cleaning some really hardcore nasty carpet then the attack can be different and your 360 is probably the better tool
 
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Clean-n-mean

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I would keep your psi around 300 or so with a porty... higher psi especially with your mach wand (jets are very close to the carpet) you'll start to inject too much water into the backing on some carpet types... that will definitely cause some over wetting.

With pretty much all carpets your only cleaning about 1 inch of a fiber, you don't need tons of water to do that you just need to efficiently release/suspend the soil and then rinse it away... ideally with the best dry times possible.

If your cleaning some really hardcore nasty carpet then the attack can be different and your 360 is probably the better tool
Acp,
Thanks for the info but I only use my porty for the pump now. I use a mytee air hog for my vacs. And it's very powerful suction. I know I could use a bit more water for quicker cleaning times.
I have two inlets going into my ametek pump and there are no restrictions in the lines. They look great. But the strainers in the rinse box are crazy fine!!! So fine I think they are restricting suction!!! Look at how fine the mesh is on these things!!
20191019_193329.jpg

I get it they want to protect the pump. But from 300 psinup to 500 I'm not getting anymore water out of my wand jets!!
 

Clean-n-mean

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Honestly I would be happy at 1.15-1.25 for now. And I should be able to get close to that at 500 psi. Only one thing to do. Tomorrow I will spin the screens off and run the tests again!! Will see if bo screens makes a big difference!
 

Smtwn janitorial

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I accidently said 8gpm earlier when I meant 8 flow. Sorry to confuse. I think of the system like an engine. An engine is a pump. You could improve the air intake into an engine, but without more fuel, or the exhaust side of the engine it wouldnt help. The whole system will have a bottleneck somewhere. Somewhere will be a restriction. Same with your system. You are on the right track to test one thing at a time. I have a feeling your lines and strainers and jets can improve your flow some, but your pump has a maximum amount of volume that it can produce. You can run a one inch line and huge jets but if your pump is maxed that's all it's got.
 

Clean-n-mean

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I accidently said 8gpm earlier when I meant 8 flow. Sorry to confuse. I think of the system like an engine. An engine is a pump. You could improve the air intake into an engine, but without more fuel, or the exhaust side of the engine it wouldnt help. The whole system will have a bottleneck somewhere. Somewhere will be a restriction. Same with your system. You are on the right track to test one thing at a time. I have a feeling your lines and strainers and jets can improve your flow some, but your pump has a maximum amount of volume that it can produce. You can run a one inch line and huge jets but if your pump is maxed that's all it's got.
Yes you are correct. For very little money i can improve mine I will. I have been wanting the mytee water hog . Its only 50ish pounds and pump up to 1200 psi. I think that set up with 3/8 lines would.be really nice.
 

Jim Davisson

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Jim,
Thanks for the great info!! I have to agree with you fully. And I was afraid you where going to say my line on my wand from the valve down to the spray bar(SINGLE LINE TOO) was going to have to be changed!!
So you are saying jim that my 1.5 jets are NOT too restrictive and it's all the other areas combined.
It's crazy, I can hear the pump really hunkering down when I turn up the pressure. That's why I assumed it was my jet size.
Jet size is one part of it, the rest depends on all the other parts. 3/8" solution hose holds double the amount of water already pressurized, this is large. Test your equipment and see where you are at. Removing all your jets and measure flow through the wand for an idea of your system gross output in it's current configuration vs open flow with the same amount of solution line. This will help you determine what to upgrade. 1 gpm is not ideal, 1.25 will be great, 1.5 is heavenly and a lot less labor.