Buying at Boxxer XL thats frozen | TruckMount Forums #1 Carpet Cleaning Forums

Buying at Boxxer XL thats frozen

boenerges

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So Im buying a 2012 Boxxer XL that was well maintained... until... someone in this guys family who was supposed to stay on the heater didnt when the guy went away for 6 months and stopped putting the propane heater in the trailer. OUCH!!!
It froze... and the fined tube heat exchanger brass elbows are popped. Pump needs replaced.
Im only paying $500 for the unit... hardship thing. It comes with 300 ft of vac and solution line, a RX-12 used 4 times, and a wand.

Heat exchanger is 1600 brand new
Pump is 800
Im looking for some idea of what else may be wrong with it and figures for costs. Heat exchanger seems easy and so does pump. it wont start so im thinking maybe starting solenoid may be bad too.

Sad... the guy took fantastic care of it until he was deployed. Just wants it all gone now and has left the biz.. Its only 500 but Im still a bit leery. Any thoughts or advise please?
Lets say everything that could go wrong did how much will go into getting this thing back in action? Include labor costs if possible.... Thanks in advance
 

wandwizard

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Have you already checked to see if the battery is good? Is it even turning over? It sounds like you're getting a good deal on it even if it takes a few grand to get it going again. Have you gone through the troubleshooting page on the Boxxer XL manual? https://hydramaster.com/Manuals/BoxxerXL-OwnersManual.pdf

I think you can get that pump quite a bit cheaper than that. I think this should be the pump that machine uses. I suspect the pump on there is repairable, but changing it out is likely the best choice. https://www.dultmeier.com/products/search/4072
 

boenerges

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Have you already checked to see if the battery is good? Is it even turning over? It sounds like you're getting a good deal on it even if it takes a few grand to get it going again. Have you gone through the troubleshooting page on the Boxxer XL manual? https://hydramaster.com/Manuals/BoxxerXL-OwnersManual.pdf

I think you can get that pump quite a bit cheaper than that. I think this should be the pump that machine uses. I suspect the pump on there is repairable, but changing it out is likely the best choice. https://www.dultmeier.com/products/search/4072
THANK YOU FOR YOUR RESPONSE... ITS HARD TO PASS UP ON FOR 500. OIL CHANGED EVERY 50 HOURS. 2350 HOURS ON MACHINE. IVE GOT 3000 TO REPAIR BUT NOT MORE. NEVER WORKED ON ONE OF THESE... LIKELY USE INTERLINK AFTER DOING MY DARN BEST TO GET PARTS AT A BETTER PRICE. IT COMES WITH 300 FT OF VAC AND SOLUTION LINE, A GOOD WAND, AND A LIKE NEW RX-12. IF I THOUGHT A FEW GRAND WOULD PUT IT BACK RIGHT AGAIN ID FEEL MUCH MORE AT EASE. I WAS THINKING OF CALLING HYDRAMASTER AND GETTING A LIST OF HOSES, FITTINGS, ETC ETC TO PRICE OUT WORST CASE SCENARIO. THE HEAT EXCHANGER IS HIGH AT 1600 TO BEGIN THIS. MAYBE GET BRASS AT HYDRAULIC SHOP NOT INTERLINK. ANY ADVISE SUPER APPRECIATED!!! THANK YOU AGAIN
 
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wandwizard

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THANK YOU FOR YOUR RESPONSE... ITS HARD TO PASS UP ON FOR 500. OIL CHANGED EVERY 50 HOURS. 2350 HOURS ON MACHINE. IVE GOT 3000 TO REPAIR BUT NOT MORE. NEVER WORKED ON ONE OF THESE... LIKELY USE INTERLINK AFTER DOING MY DARN BEST TO GET PARTS AT A BETTER PRICE. IT COMES WITH 300 FT OF VAC AND SOLUTION LINE, A GOOD WAND, AND A LIKE NEW RX-12. IF I THOUGHT A FEW GRAND WOULD PUT IT BACK RIGHT AGAIN ID FEEL MUCH MORE AT EASE. I WAS THINKING OF CALLING HYDRAMASTER AND GETTING A LIST OF HOSES, FITTINGS, ETC ETC TO PRICE OUT WORST CASE SCENARIO. THE HEAT EXCHANGER IS HIGH AT 1600 TO BEGIN THIS. MAYBE GET BRASS AT HYDRAULIC SHOP NOT INTERLINK. ANY ADVISE SUPER APPRECIATED!!! THANK YOU AGAIN
Those heat exchanges are expensive. To think that 15 minutes or less spent winterizing that machine would have protected it. I wouldn't trust just putting a heater in there for long. Some guys I'm sure would do what @Jim Davisson suggested. Did you ever get it started? Have you made sure the battery is fully charged and holding a charge?
 
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Mama Fen

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THANK YOU FOR YOUR RESPONSE... ITS HARD TO PASS UP ON FOR 500. OIL CHANGED EVERY 50 HOURS. 2350 HOURS ON MACHINE. IVE GOT 3000 TO REPAIR BUT NOT MORE. NEVER WORKED ON ONE OF THESE... LIKELY USE INTERLINK AFTER DOING MY DARN BEST TO GET PARTS AT A BETTER PRICE. IT COMES WITH 300 FT OF VAC AND SOLUTION LINE, A GOOD WAND, AND A LIKE NEW RX-12. IF I THOUGHT A FEW GRAND WOULD PUT IT BACK RIGHT AGAIN ID FEEL MUCH MORE AT EASE. I WAS THINKING OF CALLING HYDRAMASTER AND GETTING A LIST OF HOSES, FITTINGS, ETC ETC TO PRICE OUT WORST CASE SCENARIO. THE HEAT EXCHANGER IS HIGH AT 1600 TO BEGIN THIS. MAYBE GET BRASS AT HYDRAULIC SHOP NOT INTERLINK. ANY ADVISE SUPER APPRECIATED!!! THANK YOU AGAIN
The tough thing about freeze damage - and trust me, we've seen dozens of them here at our shop - is that it's systemic and sneaky. Once you get one thing fixed and re-pressurized, then another thing which wasn't leaking before (because the pressure was reduced) pops a leak. Then once you re-pressurize THAT part of the system, another one goes kablooie. And so on, and so forth. What looks like a $1500 repair can easily become $4k or higher when you factor in labor hours, parts, testing, etc.

Best advice - go slow, thoroughly test each part keeping in mind what's downstream of it that might also be damaged, and be prepared to back up and re-evaluate based on each repair step. And if a part is borderline repairable - like the pump - do yourself a favor and replace it with new. Nothing is as heartbreaking as thinking you're good to go and suddenly there's yet another problem.

Boxxers are good machines, and older ones are fairly simple builds without a ton of bells and whistles.

Make sure to check all the other equipment too, like that RX-12; brass fittings are extremely susceptible to all sorts of cracks when they freeze, and there are a lot of brassy bits on most tools.
 

SRD

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500 bucks???? Blower is worth that, frames worth that, rx 20 is worth that even if every piece of brass is blown in it, engine is worth that, should i keep going? Hell buy it ill give you 600 for it lol
 
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sbsscn

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My opinion on this is that hopefully (which is more than likely) there will only be one issue.
When water freezes it expands, BUT! its usually not the expansion of the liquid itself that causes the damage. Its the pressure that builds up, gases are compressible while fluids are not in this case water. the pressure buildup gets so high that it puts a large amount of stress on the metal that it just cannot hold anywhere there is a soft spot, weak spot or a casting or mold or weld union and snap! a soft metal like cooper and even brass will not hold very well but stainless or a thick walled pipe will be able to hold again depending on the metal. Usually on pumps the weaker areas will give like aluminum pistons, or body, or possibly brass head will blow. any heat exchanger made of cooper will also break.

I would if possible check every brass fitting. Hoses should hold up but if the psi exceeds the rating of the hose then replace or just replace all hoses as a precaution . You dont need to get everything OEM im pretty sure that you can have some of the hoses aftermarket fabricated.

Sometime the pressure inside the pipe can reach and exceed 2700 psi!
 
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JDARNOLD

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So Im buying a 2012 Boxxer XL that was well maintained... until... someone in this guys family who was supposed to stay on the heater didnt when the guy went away for 6 months and stopped putting the propane heater in the trailer. OUCH!!!
It froze... and the fined tube heat exchanger brass elbows are popped. Pump needs replaced.
Im only paying $500 for the unit... hardship thing. It comes with 300 ft of vac and solution line, a RX-12 used 4 times, and a wand.

Heat exchanger is 1600 brand new
Pump is 800
Im looking for some idea of what else may be wrong with it and figures for costs. Heat exchanger seems easy and so does pump. it wont start so im thinking maybe starting solenoid may be bad too.

Sad... the guy took fantastic care of it until he was deployed. Just wants it all gone now and has left the biz.. Its only 500 but Im still a bit leery. Any thoughts or advise please?
Lets say everything that could go wrong did how much will go into getting this thing back in action? Include labor costs if possible.... Thanks in advance
As for the not starting. HM usually has a float switch at the bottom of the water box that can be the issue. Plus if it has frozen, find the high temp shutdown sensor and disconnect it then try to start
 
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PistolPete

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Just Judson it.
Buy an external heater propane or diesel, new pump and possibly hoses or fittings.
Get rid of all the bypass solenoids and make it simple.
Easily doable for $2500
 

boenerges

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Jul 19, 2011
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Just Judson it.
Buy an external heater propane or diesel, new pump and possibly hoses or fittings.
Get rid of all the bypass solenoids and make it simple.
Easily doable for $2500
So between little giant AND all you mentioned your thinking $2500??? That would be cool...
 

boenerges

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The tough thing about freeze damage - and trust me, we've seen dozens of them here at our shop - is that it's systemic and sneaky. Once you get one thing fixed and re-pressurized, then another thing which wasn't leaking before (because the pressure was reduced) pops a leak. Then once you re-pressurize THAT part of the system, another one goes kablooie. And so on, and so forth. What looks like a $1500 repair can easily become $4k or higher when you factor in labor hours, parts, testing, etc.

Best advice - go slow, thoroughly test each part keeping in mind what's downstream of it that might also be damaged, and be prepared to back up and re-evaluate based on each repair step. And if a part is borderline repairable - like the pump - do yourself a favor and replace it with new. Nothing is as heartbreaking as thinking you're good to go and suddenly there's yet another problem.

Boxxers are good machines, and older ones are fairly simple builds without a ton of bells and whistles.

Make sure to check all the other equipment too, like that RX-12; brass fittings are extremely susceptible to all sorts of cracks when they freeze, and there are a lot of brassy bits on most tools.
Thank you for that... new to tm's. Is there a way to figure out the entire pathway that would suffer from the freeze? Get a parts list...
Thanks again. Id like to fix once and not run off half cocked... Wondering if the fined tube heat exchanger can be repaired by an hvac shop or something to avoid the 1600?
 

boenerges

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My .02

New guy would likely rebuild it to it's former glory, old guy would build a Cobb or Judson with the bones for .25 on the dollar. Look at all avenues for your buck.
Is there an instructional pathway to doing that switch over?
 

Jim Davisson

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Is there an instructional pathway to doing that switch over?
Since you are in NC call Les Judson, he's a good guy in this industry. He does exactly what you need to do and will get you cleaning carpet and not wrenching a TM. Some of us love working on TM's, most cleaners don't like it even a little bit.

 

Mama Fen

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Since you are in NC call Les Judson, he's a good guy in this industry. He does exactly what you need to do and will get you cleaning carpet and not wrenching a TM. Some of us love working on TM's, most cleaners don't like it even a little bit.

I need to meet with Les and buy him a beer. I have never had the good fortune to get to know him in person, but we 'share' some customers and they all have NOTHING but positive things to say about him. Everything I hear about him tells me that he takes his guys to heart and he really delivers on his promises EVERY TIME. That's a beautiful thing.
 

Jim Davisson

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I need to meet with Les and buy him a beer. I have never had the good fortune to get to know him in person, but we 'share' some customers and they all have NOTHING but positive things to say about him. Everything I hear about him tells me that he takes his guys to heart and he really delivers on his promises EVERY TIME. That's a beautiful thing.

Only talked to him once on the phone, but he sold truth and it was plainly evident. I've been doing this for awhile and I'm not far from him and I have never heard anyone say anything, but good things about Les. That's pretty incredible in this industry over my quarter century plus scrubbin' rugs.
 
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wandwizard

Randy Dockins
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Is there an instructional pathway to doing that switch over?
I've talked to Les a few times and watched a video about his work on more complex truck mounts to make them less complex and more reliable. Basically he strips it down to its bare-bones components and tries to get as much as possible repairable in your home town rather than buying expensive proprietary parts and believe you me they ARE EXPENSIVE. I'm talking WAY, WAY over the top in price, not just a little high. If you're close enough to him it definitely is something to look into. I don't think 3 grand will be enough frankly, but it won't hurt to talk to him about it.
 

PistolPete

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It's really not that complicated.
Anything in the hydraulic system is prone to freeze damage, so all water lines and associated fittings.

My machine is super simple.
Incoming water hose to water softener.
Softener to water box with mechanical float valve.
Water box to pump.
Pump to heater with pressure safety valve.
Heater to QD manifold.

The only shut down circuit is waste tank high level switch and low oil pressure switch.

That's it.
 
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