Browning problem

[john mundy]

Hey guys I am having a bit of an issue with a job I did yesterday and was looking for some advice. ..

Cleaned a living room, stairs, hallway, 2 bedrooms yesterday and the job looked great when I finished but the next day the customer called and complained about brown spots in their living room.

This customer happens to be my aunt/uncles house and I've cleaned their house before with no problems but yesterday I forgot to use defoamer and vacuum performance may have been compromised. As a result I am thinking too much water was left in the rug and some nasty wicking occurred.

Luckily I had some browning treatment in the truck so applied to about 70% of the living room and most of the stains did dissappear but there was still some spots and what seemed to be browning re-appearing after I groomed. I extracted with all-fiber rinse with a ph of about 4.5 which is supposed to prevent browning but the stains CAME BACK. I even turned down my PSI to about 350 and put fans on after I rinsed. Tried to use very little water but apparently it did nothing.

Note: They have alot of pets...4 dogs and 12 cats to be exact. One of the dogs just passed and was having repeated accidents in the living room so they called me to clean. I used Matrix grand slam for a pre-spray and used Matrix confidence for detergent with a little citrus solve added as a booster.

This is the before and after in one of the bedrooms, oddly enough no browning happened in this room.
Now I know she has moisture gaurd padding but I am worried that the pet damage is causing this.

Should I try browning treatment again?

The Living Room is where it mostly occurred and as I said earlier
They disappeared by
about 80% after browning treatment was applied but then Iw rinsed with "All fiber Rinse" to try and get up the remaining spots and they reappeared.

 

[Jim Davisson]

Here's what happened. You didn't remove enough of the offending material initially and you were working against improper homespun spot cleaning of likely improper pH. If I were to go back to correct it I would either bonnet it or extract with an encap product.

 

[john mundy]

Thank you for the quick reply, I am not familiar with bonnet cleaning but do have a 175 for sanding/prepping skimcoat's before installing VCT.

 

[jtsunbrite]

Thank you for the quick reply, I am not familiar with bonnet cleaning but do have a 175 for sanding/prepping skimcoat's before installing VCT.

buy you a bonnet and after you prespray in the future you can quickly run it over the carpet then extract

 

[Jim Davisson]

Thank you for the quick reply, I am not familiar with bonnet cleaning but do have a 175 for sanding/prepping skimcoat's before installing VCT.

You don't need to bonnet to use a bonnet (encap) product. The carpet doesn't know which way you get them on there!?! Encap products rely on post vacuuming... days, weeks, and months later for results. As a lifelong steam cleaner and VLM guy I will tell you both have their places and sometimes it's at the same time.

 

[Jim Davisson]

After rereading your description it seems you need to inquire about the spotting product they are using, but not rinsing from the carpet. Seems like it was a factor in your recovery i.e decreased cfm's that contributed to the eventual brown out.

 

[Total Cleaning Service]

Yes looks like it was over wet and no extracted enough. What psi did you clean it at the first time? If you disnt have a bunch of grease i wouldnt have used citris. When rinsing carpet you are tryinf to get it as close back to neutral as you can

 

[john mundy]

First time I cleaned it I used 450 PSI. I also use an evolution wand that is designed to pick up more water and shorten drying times.

 

[Jim Davisson]

If it foamed up terribly while cleaning it chokes off your airflow. When I hit foamy area's I lay the wand down and straighten hoses or do something else until the hoses are clear again. If it was everywhere that's a tough row to hoe.

 

[Total Cleaning Service]

First time I cleaned it I used 450 PSI. I also use an evolution wand that is designed to pick up more water and shorten drying times.

I never liked the evolution want, never felt like there was good contact with the carpet(IMO). I would have stayed away from the citrus in the rinse stage and extracted at 300psi. I always see guys post cleaning at 500 or 600 psi, your blasting water thru the backing and partially into the padding where all the stains have soaked thru and wick up to the top. A lower psi you're staying more on the fibers and out of trouble. these are my opinions based on my experience, I know some may not agree

 

[Qwikdry]

I never liked the evolution want, never felt like there was good contact with the carpet(IMO). I would have stayed away from the citrus in the rinse stage and extracted at 300psi. I always see guys post cleaning at 500 or 600 psi, your blasting water thru the backing and partially into the padding where all the stains have soaked thru and wick up to the top. A lower psi you're staying more on the fibers and out of trouble. these are my opinions based on my experience, I know some may not agree

100% agree. i feel the same way. over 300 psi is gonna leave you with longer dry times. and water will more likely be able to reach the backing and have wicking issues. 250 to 300 psi is a good pressure to clean at on most carpets. now if you are doing commercial glue down with no pad you could be around 500 even 600 psi and still be fine.

 

[john mundy]

Thanks guys I appreciate the feedback, I'm going to go to Jon-don and see what they carry as far as encapsulation and try that route.

 

[Scott W]

Thorough vacuuming and flushing with good vacuum are the ways to prevent this.

Either recleaning using the above or encapsulation is the way to correct.

I would suggest either Biridgepoint's Encapuclean O2 and a bonnet under your 175 RPM floor machine or Encapuclean Green can be spray applied and brush into the carpet (2nd choice).

 

[TopJobROd]

For all the cleaners talking about different pressures, what is the difference between 450psi with 02 flow jets and 250-300 psi with 03 flow jets?? There are a lot more factors than just psi. I had a visit from a cleaner while I was cleaning a restaurant who told me he cleans at 1000 psi, I asked him how many lawsuits he has had from "blooming".

 

[Qwikdry]

For all the cleaners talking about different pressures, what is the difference between 450psi with 02 flow jets and 250-300 psi with 03 flow jets?? There are a lot more factors than just psi. I had a visit from a cleaner while I was cleaning a restaurant who told me he cleans at 1000 psi, I asked him how many lawsuits he has had from "blooming".

how deep the water penetrates the carpet and whether it gets into the pad or not is what the difference is. also even if the jet size is the same, when you increase the PSI the flow or amount of water you are putting down increases). once you get water past the backing into the pad, a standard wand has a difficult time recovering it. you will get wicking problems. on commercial glue down with no pad underneath it isn't such a problem cleaning at higher pressures.

 

[Luky]

If it foamed up terribly while cleaning it chokes off your airflow. When I hit foamy area's I lay the wand down and straighten hoses or do something else until the hoses are clear again. If it was everywhere that's a tough row to hoe.

So no extra cost for defoamer, right? I have to admit I use a lot of it(defoamer) and I know it doesn't do any good to machine while salty moisture passes trough blower or vacuum motors. But it has to be done, if I'm nearing 200' on commercial accounts. Even little sprinkles of it help to clear up the walls of vac hose and my motto is "no curves , no air obstruction, no problem". Prefer crystal over powder one, liquid Foam kill is the least favorite choice.
Guys with blowers over 45 don't have to worry about foaming much.....

 

[Jim Davisson]

So no extra cost for defoamer, right? I have to admit I use a lot of it(defoamer) and I know it doesn't do any good to machine while salty moisture passes trough blower or vacuum motors. But it has to be done, if I'm nearing 200' on commercial accounts. Even little sprinkles of it help to clear up the walls of vac hose and my motto is "no curves , no air obstruction, no problem". Prefer crystal over powder one, liquid Foam kill is the least favorite choice.
Guys with blowers over 45 don't have to worry about foaming much.....

I've never charged for defoamer but some times I wished I had foreseen larger scale foaming problems and upped the ft² price for the added time needed to get it done.

 

[Luky]

First time I cleaned it I used 450 PSI. I also use an evolution wand that is designed to pick up more water and shorten drying times.

Sometimes we have tendency to over complicate use of chemistry. Whenever you re -introduce chemistry to unknown cause or the problem, you're creating more mystery for yourself. If I suspect that browning occurred as of result of insufficient rinsing, all I use is a acidic rinse (3-5 ph, Stain B gone), and a lot of moving air. Still , I advise customer not to walk in the area in following 12 hours( hence afternoon hours cleaning), overnight drying to prevent wick back or browning. If I'm dealing with a urine related problems, I like to address it in 2 direction - odor and stain . Water claw( spot lifter is always a must) and speedy drying (down draft air mover) completes the process. As always, results may vary

 

[Joe cool]

Run a few bonnets with h2o2 Solution and it should help a ton .

 

[Jimmy L]

Did you use a portable with it's limited suction?
Too much cleaning product and too much foam in the vac line.
I would have rinsed it again with water and applied a 40 vol peroxide over everything.


But as everyone knows...........people with pets will never be happy in a few weeks after doggys go back to pissing in the same spots...................blaming you.

Can't win