Boxer 421 chemical injection

MikeHawley14

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After it’s primed and turned on I can’t meter it. The bobber sits almost at the top and goes through 5 gallons in less than an hour. How can I fix this?
 

wandwizard

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After it’s primed and turned on I can’t meter it. The bobber sits almost at the top and goes through 5 gallons in less than an hour. How can I fix this?
It sounds like a check valve issue so it would be drawing all the time the pumps on. Putting new check valves in the chemical pump should fix it. I think it's the check valve on the draw or "in" side of the chemical pump would have to be bad if I remember correctly. I think you should be able to pull those out and replace w/o taking the whole thing apart. I would put new o-rings in there too just to be sure. I don't know of anything else that can cause that particular problem. Until you get it fixed I'd shut the 3 way off while operating. I checked the manual and can't find a word about this. Seems like it used to be in there.
 

wandwizard

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After it’s primed and turned on I can’t meter it. The bobber sits almost at the top and goes through 5 gallons in less than an hour. How can I fix this?
In case you haven't gotten this fixed yet I thought of 2 things to look for. Sorry, but my memory was a bit hazy. If chemical is getting into your water box you could have a hole in your diaphragm. I've never personally seen that happen, but it is supposed to be one of the things that can cause your jug to empty too fast.

The other thing is there is a chemical check valve on the machine. This is separate from the chemical pump and a completely different part. If it fails your will be drawing non-stop the entire time the machine's pump in on. My chemical check valve is down low on the left side facing the machine near where the unloader is. It's kind of a brass block looking thing. Those things should last a long time, but I'm positive this could be your problem. I've only had this happen once with my machine and there's nothing in the manual about this particular problem.
 
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wandwizard

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I appreciate the help. Gonna take it to TSI in Phx on Friday.
Just saying the last time this happened to me it was the chemical check valve. That's fairly easy to replace btw. I've had this machine for years and didn't even know it was on there until it finally went bad. I think when it's bad it lets all your chemical jug empty into the waste tank. I suppose it might be possible for the 3 way valve to cause this too, but not certain.
 
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wandwizard

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I just thought I'd add this since you won't find it in any Boxxer 421 manual. I knew I had read it somewhere, but wasn't sure. Besides the chemical check valve there are 2 other things that cause the Dwyer to show draw on the chemical line when a tool is not being triggered.
Here are all 3 and I don't think there is a 4'th to my knowledge.
1. The chemical selector valve is not seating properly so that your chemical is being drawn in to the Prime port while working. Sometimes just removing the knob and slightly tightening the packing nut will solve that. Valve may have to be replace otherwise.
2. The chemical pump diaphragm has a hole in it. I've never had that happen, but I think guys who regularly operate at high pressure up to 1,000 or more psi will have that happen more often since that pressure pulsates right on that diaphragm.
3. The chemical check valve is not closing correctly causing a constant draw on the chemical line. That did happen to me and mine had to be replaced since no repair kit is available for it. Btw, my original chemical check valve lasted over 15 years!

Now this is about it. Why am I going to this trouble? Because I'm having the same issue AGAIN RIGHT NOW!!! :(Gonna be working on mine this afternoon. Fortunately I found a brand new chemical check valve on E-bay for a fraction of what Jondon charges so I'm ready if that's the problem. I already know for sure my diaphragm is not the problem so that really leaves the 3 way selector as my suspected culprit.
 
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Jim Davisson

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We removed that last step pump years ago and dose the freshwater tank and let the chems lube the pump. Perfect dilution ratio and happier wet end of the pump.

By the way, if you ever do a full wet end rebuild, buy the plunger seals "loaded" already and just wiggle the old assemblies out, 15 minutes vs 1 hour saying bad words.
 
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wandwizard

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We removed that last step pump years ago and dose the freshwater tank and let the chems lube the pump. Perfect dilution ratio and happier wet end of the pump.

By the way, if you ever do a full wet end rebuild, buy the plunger seals "loaded" already and just wiggle the old assemblies out, 15 minutes vs 1 hour saying bad words.
I've been tempted to do that. Actually, I have put my rinse right in the fresh water tank on a few occasions. The thing is right now, the way my machine is set up, I would have to use the fresh water pump on every job. I know some guys have their machine's pump set up to draw directly from the fresh water tank, but I'm a little afraid to do that. I also just a little while ago today installed a new Shurflo transfer pump. I've also thought about replacing the chemical pump with one like Judson uses if it would work on my machine.

The chemical pump has been one of the most problematic parts of my system. I have to take my machine in to Jondon Monday anyway so I'm gonna let them figure it out if they can. I'm done right now. All I know is air is getting into the system and it seems to be from the 3 way valve. This is a cheaper valve I bought from Steambrite. I do have another brand new one that I never could get to work. That thing cost me over a hundred bucks from Jondon. This chemical pump business gets pretty frustrating. TOO COMPLICATED!!!!They don't have an emoticon for pulling your hair out while screaming or I'd use it.
 
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wandwizard

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Bad diaphragm and check valves
Yeah, that diaphragm is toast. I haven't seen too many pics of any chewed up worse than that. Just curious, do you operate at high pressure a lot, say over 800 to 1,000 psi? I'm thinking these chem pumps even at those pressures should have a valve on them to be able to shut them off since you don't need chemical injection for tile cleaning anyway.
 

wandwizard

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Randy are yours swagelok brand valves?
I bought one from Jondon that I think was Swagelok. For some reason I couldn't make it work and believe me I tried! I gave up on it and bought a cheaper valve from Steambrite I think. At least it did work for a while. It appears to be crapped out on me right now. A lot of air is getting into the system and it appears to be coming from that valve so I am pretty sure that my problem. If I wasn't going to Jondon Monday anyway I'd try the Swagelok again? Are they supposed to be good valves? It does look very high quality. I don't know what's wrong with it. I may decide to tinker with it some more tomorrow. I think this is the one I have that I couldn't get to work .

 

Jim Davisson

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I bought one from Jondon that I think iwas Swagelok. For some reason I couldn't make it work and believe me I tried! I gave up on it and bought a cheaper valve from Steambrite I think. At least it did work for a while. It appears to be crapped out on me right now. A lot of air is getting into the system and it appears to be coming from that valve so I am pretty sure that my problem. If I wasn't going to Jondon Monday anyway I'd try the Swagelok again? Are they supposed to be good valves? It does look very high quality. I don't know what's wrong with it. I may decide to tinker with it some more tomorrow. I think this is the one I have that I couldn't get to work .

They are top shelf, industrial grade and rebuildable, perhaps a step over Parker. Air ingress may be the culprit, threads or stem as you mentioned? Don't think there is much available to buy above their tolerances.
 

MikeHawley14

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My boss made me switch vans with him because the Hydramaster has a bigger fresh water tank than the Legend GT I was using. He cleans with way too much psi and he was only rinsing with water. ‍♂ I told him he needs to drop it down and use the chemical injection. I’ve been doing this longer than him. I’d rather be on the other van the Prochem. I’m not a fan of Hydramaster but someday I will own. He’s the best boss I’ve had so far tho I’m already at $20 an hour only been with him for a month so far so good.
 

wandwizard

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My boss made me switch vans with him because the Hydramaster has a bigger fresh water tank than the Legend GT I was using. He cleans with way too much psi and he was only rinsing with water. ‍♂ I told him he needs to drop it down and use the chemical injection. I’ve been doing this longer than him. I’d rather be on the other van the Prochem. I’m not a fan of Hydramaster but someday I will own. He’s the best boss I’ve had so far tho I’m already at $20 an hour only been with him for a month so far so good.
I'd have a tough time working with less than the 85 gallon tank. Honestly I wished it were at least a full 100, but 85 is enough most of the time. I've had to push it to the limit a few times. If I know I need to conserve water I keep a 2 jet PMF that I think is a very good wand, but may take a little longer to do the job. I'm hooking up for water more these days to extend the life of my fresh water pump, but a lot of times I have no choice but to use it. That tank takes up more space in the van than I like, but I'll probably use it until I retire.
 

MikeHawley14

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I do love the 100 gallon master blend tank he’s got on there I just turn on the water when I’m in the last room and by the time I’m done tucking away all the tools it’s full again. I had at least 1 add on carpet repair every day this week I’m worn out bro but it paid to fix the pump. My van is stuffed with equipment but somehow always neat and clean
 
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wandwizard

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Well, I Jondon service figured out where my mysterious leak was coming from. I knew I should of either used my glasses or a magnifying glass to check my flow meter! They ran air pressure through the system and found 2 small cracks in it and evidently that's all it takes to mess with your chemical injection.

Moral of this story, If you've checked everything else and still can't get it to work don't forget about the Dwyer! She's working perfect now. Btw, there was nothing wrong with the Swagelok valve. I put that on there last Saturday and it is working too. They also got some of my other annoyance problems fixed. I'll be giving her a good test run tomorrow as well as the rest of this week.