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Bloody blood

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Just my opinion here, but in some situations, it is more feasible to cut the affected area out and dispose of safely than to attempt to clean it out. Even then you should wear protective gear. That's what I should've done in both the above cases. That carpet can be either patched or replaced. When blood has saturated heavily into the carpet and pad my opinion is it should not even be attempted to clean it. It needs to be cut out and removed from the home. You really have no idea just how dense blood is until you try to rinse out a large amount of it. It is INCREDIBLY DENSE and extremely difficult to rinse out no matter what kind of machine you're using. The homeowner didn't know what they were doing and shouldn't have even attempted to use a rental machine for this, but then a lot of carpet cleaners really don't know what they're doing in this type of situation either. The pad could be saturated with blood.

In the Navy, I did lab work for a while. I got to see germs under a microscope and did cultures to determine the type of bacteria so the proper medicine could be given for a specific infection. It definitely made me more aware of what's around us and in us. When I did those 2 blood situations it was way back in the early 90's and there was really no readily available information on how to deal with it. Honestly, I should've known just how dangerous it can be from what I was taught and saw first hand in the Navy.
I appreciate you sharing..

I think I wrapped my head around staying safe and disinfecting and cleaning the carpet. (ordered some Decon 30 and will have it Thursday)

I am still trying to fully wrap my head around disinfecting vacuum hoses and tools. For example, If I have to soak my water claw in undiluted Decon 30 and Decon 30 goes for $45 gallon on amazon that could get pricey and I wan to be sure I am disinfecting thoroughly and charging accordingly.

And, definetly trying to wrap my head around completely disinfecting vacuum hoses and how I can be sure I've done this. (Rather than just the area the disinfectant travels through the hose).

Then, when I picture having to clean the waste tank of blood (draining and disinfecting) Im starting to think if I want to take care of this stuff maybe formal training would be in order rather than go and get involved with this type of business half assed.
 

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I appreciate you sharing..

I think I wrapped my head around staying safe and disinfecting and cleaning the carpet. (ordered some Decon 30 and will have it Thursday)

I am still trying to fully wrap my head around disinfecting vacuum hoses and tools. For example, If I have to soak my water claw in undiluted Decon 30 and Decon 30 goes for $45 gallon on amazon that could get pricey and I wan to be sure I am disinfecting thoroughly and charging accordingly.

And, definetly trying to wrap my head around completely disinfecting vacuum hoses and how I can be sure I've done this. (Rather than just the area the disinfectant travels through the hose).

Then, when I picture having to clean the waste tank of blood (draining and disinfecting) Im starting to think if I want to take care of this stuff maybe formal training would be in order rather than go and get involved with this type of business half assed.
I decided a long time ago I won't ever do a heavy saturation again. Really formal training is the way to go and could be lucrative for some in certain areas. Some jobs it's best to walk away from and you have to make a judgment call. No way on this earth I'd take a water claw and try to flush out a bunch of blood or send it back to my waste tank through my wand and hoses. I just refuse to do that ever again. I'm not saying you might not be able to do this job and be fine, but the way you described what happened makes me think the pad is likely got some or a lot of blood in it and they just removed some blood from the surface. The real problem is still in the pad where a rental machine won't even touch. Can you get that out with a water claw? Maybe. Should you? Probably not.
 

Mama Fen

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Im starting to think if I want to take care of this stuff maybe formal training would be in order rather than go and get involved with this type of business half assed.
I think that last paragraph is exactly where you needed to be. And I tip my hat to you for getting there! (y)
 
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Mama Fen

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I decided a long time ago I won't ever do a heavy saturation again. Really formal training is the way to go and could be lucrative for some in certain areas. Some jobs it's best to walk away from and you have to make a judgment call. No way on this earth I'd take a water claw and try to flush out a bunch of blood or send it back to my waste tank through my wand and hoses. I just refuse to do that ever again. I'm not saying you might not be able to do this job and be fine, but the way you described what happened makes me think the pad is likely got some or a lot of blood in it and they just removed some blood from the surface. The real problem is still in the pad. Can you get that out with a water claw? Maybe. Should you? Probably not.
A truckmount and tools can be sanitized after a bio loss; proper training makes it not as difficult as it might seem.

The majority of the surfaces are metal, not conducive to microbial growth. The key is DRY TIME. A wet surface of any kind can encourage growth. A dry hard surface? Not so much.

I have several bio cleanup companies in the area, and many of them use truckmounts. The cleaning and sanitation of equipment after the job is billed to the customer.
 
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wandwizard

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A truckmount and tools can be sanitized after a bio loss; proper training makes it not as difficult as it might seem.

The majority of the surfaces are metal, not conducive to microbial growth. The key is DRY TIME. A wet surface of any kind can encourage growth. A dry hard surface? Not so much.

I have several bio cleanup companies in the area, and many of them use truckmounts. The cleaning and sanitation of equipment after the job is billed to the customer.
Good info. I know some use TM's for this stuff, but for me, it's just not something I choose to do. Somebody's gotta do it though. I'll do just about anything, but that is one thing I don't want to do. If someone wants to do this kind of work they really do need serious professional training by serious experts. I never knew really how to sanitize my equipment back then. It's a wonder I didn't catch something. Just regular wastewater has who knows what kind of pathogens in it. It would be interesting to have some waste tanks tested for pathogens. I bet it would be an eye opener!
Blood is just one thing that carries germs. There's plenty of others that can get you sick or in the grave.
 

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I think that last paragraph is exactly where you needed to be. And I tip my hat to you for getting there! (y)
Yeah probably so.

I did find other threads (with pictures) of basically cleaners doing the steps you recommended here getting great results so maybe I am just more personally choosing the side of caution.

I called the customer back a moment ago and shared I wouldn't have the disinfectant until Thursday and she seemed comfortable waiting for me to do the job once it comes in. But, she thought it was unreasonable me having concerns about trying to verify more about how much blood and the padding (which there is none) and possible sub floor issues. She told me its a concrete subfloor and when I brought up concerns over potential long term contamination she didn't feel that was an issue.

She then started to get a little irritated with me (I asked if she could get a picture so I could see what I'm dealing with) and said this is ridiculous isn't this what carpet cleaners do every day for crime scenes and everything...

I shared with her my understanding that what she is referring to is more of a bio-hazard type specialty but a good carpet cleaner (if the issue isn't so severe) could probably help her. She then basically said this is ridiculous and Ill find someone else that can do this no problem and hung up on me. I didn't even make it to explain to her that I am asking these questions to see if replace vs clean is a consideration. So maybe she thought I was looking for a reason to not do the job.

I didn't want to leave anything to chance and chose to discuss (try) the full job with her before moving forward.

I thought she said she called Stanley Steemer first when we originally spoke - I think she mentioned she was too far out distance wise for them. Who knows, maybe they turned it down or charged her 3x what I proposed.
 

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I'm sorry you lost the job, but the customer had no clue what you were going to have to deal with or that your concerns were well-founded. It is definitely not something I've run into on a regular basis and I've been doing this since 1987. I'm sure some guys see it more frequently. Really you should get some training on this if you want to do it. There is very real danger involved. Make no mistake about that. Some guys had to find out the hard way and they're no longer with us.
 
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Mama Fen

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Yeah probably so.

I did find other threads (with pictures) of basically cleaners doing the steps you recommended here getting great results so maybe I am just more personally choosing the side of caution.

I called the customer back a moment ago and shared I wouldn't have the disinfectant until Thursday and she seemed comfortable waiting for me to do the job once it comes in. But, she thought it was unreasonable me having concerns about trying to verify more about how much blood and the padding (which there is none) and possible sub floor issues. She told me its a concrete subfloor and when I brought up concerns over potential long term contamination she didn't feel that was an issue.

She then started to get a little irritated with me (I asked if she could get a picture so I could see what I'm dealing with) and said this is ridiculous isn't this what carpet cleaners do every day for crime scenes and everything...

I shared with her my understanding that what she is referring to is more of a bio-hazard type specialty but a good carpet cleaner (if the issue isn't so severe) could probably help her. She then basically said this is ridiculous and Ill find someone else that can do this no problem and hung up on me. I didn't even make it to explain to her that I am asking these questions to see if replace vs clean is a consideration. So maybe she thought I was looking for a reason to not do the job.

I didn't want to leave anything to chance and chose to discuss (try) the full job with her before moving forward.

I thought she said she called Stanley Steemer first when we originally spoke - I think she mentioned she was too far out distance wise for them. Who knows, maybe they turned it down or charged her 3x what I proposed.
Sounds like losing this job is the best thing that could have happened to you. If your safety AND hers are less of a concern to her than how long it's going to take, then her priorities are not yours, and you're best off walking away.

If you want some good practice to see if this is the kind of job you might want in the future, get a carpet-and-pad scrap (or even better, a sofa cushion) and a quart of pig blood from a local carniceria. Splatter the heck out of the cushion! Let it dry, then practice cleaning it off. Pig or cow blood is far less potentially pathogenic than human blood but has the same physical properties and would be cleaned the same way.
 
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I'm sorry you lost the job, but the customer had no clue what you were going to have to deal with or that your concerns were well-founded. It is definitely not something I've run into on a regular basis and I've been doing this since 1987. I'm sure some guys see it more frequently. Really you should get some training on this if you want to do it. There is very real danger involved. Make no mistake about that. Some guys had to find out the hard way and they're no longer with us.
I guess the question I have now is at what point do jobs get turned away. I mean, if a dog or whatever leaves a very small amount of blood then does it (or should it) disqualify a job for carpet cleaners. In other words, I imagine, a small amount of blood due too not too uncommon a circumstance wild still require decontamination of equipment, right?

IDK, I dont want to get too crazy over this. Especially because there is people out there like you that in over 30 years rarely come into jobs with blood. So, sounds pretty rare and uncommon. You almost want to think blood is a little more common.
 

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Sounds like losing this job is the best thing that could have happened to you. If your safety AND hers are less of a concern to her than how long it's going to take, then her priorities are not yours, and you're best off walking away.

If you want some good practice to see if this is the kind of job you might want in the future, get a carpet-and-pad scrap (or even better, a sofa cushion) and a quart of pig blood from a local carniceria. Splatter the heck out of the cushion! Let it dry, then practice cleaning it off. Pig or cow blood is far less potentially pathogenic than human blood but has the same physical properties and would be cleaned the same way.
intersting...especially that pig blood is far less pathogenic than human blood.

There should be a chart of substances we clean and the order of danger including when to suit up and when it might not make sense.
 

Mama Fen

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intersting...especially that pig blood is far less pathogenic than human blood.

There should be a chart of substances we clean and the order of danger including when to suit up and when it might not make sense.
There are very few zoonotic (animal-to-human) diseases found in the blood of properly butchered pigs. (One particular species of Streptococcus is known to cause meningitis in Asian cultures where raw blood is consumed as part of traditional dishes.)

In trauma scene classes, pigs' blood is often used as a substitute for human blood so that students can experience the challenges of removing blood from a soft surface without putting themselves at risk. If you're practicing at home, wear gloves and some sort of respiratory protection AT MINIMUM, just to get into good habits.

For the most part, any tissue or bodily fluid from a human being should be treated as "hot" - this includes blood, semen, vomitus, and (to a degree) urine.

Bodily excretions and tissues from animals may not start out as pathogenic, but as they break down and deteriorate they cultivate the same pathogenic bacteria as human wastes, so should also be treated as "hot". Think of the animal carcasses in flood water after a hurricane - the same decomp process is happening to the waste, just more slowly.
 

Mama Fen

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I guess the question I have now is at what point do jobs get turned away. I mean, if a dog or whatever leaves a very small amount of blood then does it (or should it) disqualify a job for carpet cleaners. In other words, I imagine, a small amount of blood due too not too uncommon a circumstance wild still require decontamination of equipment, right?

IDK, I dont want to get too crazy over this. Especially because there is people out there like you that in over 30 years rarely come into jobs with blood. So, sounds pretty rare and uncommon. You almost want to think blood is a little more common.
In reality... I have a TON of guys who have cleaned up blood when they never should have been near it. Animal, human, you name it. And they walk away unscathed over and over again. They're convinced it can't be that dangerous, and it's all just a scam to scare people.

You only have to be wrong once.

I have worked on a handful of bio jobs, and assisted or advised on HUNDREDS more. And in every one, no matter how "light" the contamination is, I preach the same thing; a drop of blood that would fit into the period of a sentence can hold more than enough pathogens to kill everyone in the room a hundred times over.

Here's a SEM image of the pointy end of a pin - the bright orange chubby rods are bacteria.

1566332493317.png


This is why "sharps protocols" (the danger of getting stuck with pointy objects in medical situations) are so important. Just a handful of those little boogers, in the right environment, can amplify to the point of disease - and death - in a matter of days.

I don't like risking that.
 

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In reality... I have a TON of guys who have cleaned up blood when they never should have been near it. Animal, human, you name it. And they walk away unscathed over and over again. They're convinced it can't be that dangerous, and it's all just a scam to scare people.

You only have to be wrong once.

I have worked on a handful of bio jobs, and assisted or advised on HUNDREDS more. And in every one, no matter how "light" the contamination is, I preach the same thing; a drop of blood that would fit into the period of a sentence can hold more than enough pathogens to kill everyone in the room a hundred times over.

Here's a SEM image of the pointy end of a pin - the bright orange chubby rods are bacteria.

View attachment 86916

This is why "sharps protocols" (the danger of getting stuck with pointy objects in medical situations) are so important. Just a handful of those little boogers, in the right environment, can amplify to the point of disease - and death - in a matter of days.

I don't like risking that.
Thank you for sharing and thank you for taking the time to educate me on this today. I appreciate it. :)
 

Mama Fen

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Thank you for sharing and thank you for taking the time to educate me on this today. I appreciate it. :)
I don't know anyone who got into the cleaning industry because they thought they'd get rich quick.

Most cleaners I meet have one thing in common - a strong desire to serve, to improve, and to do the best they can by their customer. And that drive tends to bring them into jobs that they're not prepared for; to put it simply, they don't know what they don't know.

If anything I do or say helps them do a better job for more money, then I feel I've done my job.

But keeping them (and, by extension, you guys) SAFE by warning them of the dangers to which they may be exposing themselves is my duty.

Big difference.



 
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I don't know anyone who got into the cleaning industry because they thought they'd get rich quick.

Most cleaners I meet have one thing in common - a strong desire to serve, to improve, and to do the best they can by their customer. And that drive tends to bring them into jobs that they're not prepared for; to put it simply, they don't know what they don't know.

If anything I do or say helps them do a better job for more money, then I feel I've done my job.

But keeping them (and, by extension, you guys) SAFE by warning them of the dangers to which they may be exposing themselves is my duty.

Big difference.
Thank you for doing your job and fulfilling your duty!