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Anyone using downstream injection?

rob allen

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Seems like a lot cleaners have problems keeping their chemical injection system is working properly. With diaphragms, check valves and other moving parts. My question is is anyone here used downstream injection, how efficient is it and how did you set it up?
 

OxiFreshGuy

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Never heard of downstream injection, what is it exactly ?

1,000 hours in on my Apex 570 and the chemical pump still works just fine.
 
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brian3180

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Chemical pump on my HM 4.8 works just fine. The last step injection on my Chem-Tex Panther never gave me any issues either.
 
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Dream Clean

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Only large issue I've ever had was a check valve going bad after around 4000 hours. Changed it out and no issues since. Besides that I had to replace an old line from cracking letting air in. 2 minute fix.
 

wandwizard

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Chemical pump on my HM 4.8 works just fine. The last step injection on my Chem-Tex Panther never gave me any issues either.
You must live a charmed life my friend. Not kidding. Next to the engine on my machine I'd rate chemical injection as the number 2 most problematic piece of hardware on it hands down by a large margin. I have replaced virtually every single part in my current system including the chemical pump, hoses, Dwyer meter, chemical check valve, and the 3 way valve. Many hundreds of dollars in parts, and guess what? It still doesn't work. :mad: I now know I need to replace the cheap 3 way valve I purchased AGAIN. It is evidently leaking between the 3 way ports. If I really didn't like the "idea" of last step injection I'd go out there right now and disconnect it and toss it in the trash! It is one of those "great ideas", but VERY poorly executed. I dislike them so much, that if I were to purchase another machine it WILL NOT have one on it if it has the chemical pulse pump made by General pumps. This one for anyone who doesn't understand. https://www.jondon.com/stainless-steel-chemical-pump-ss-diaph-general-pump.html
 
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rob allen

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rob allen

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rob allen

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These look promising

IMG_6697.JPG
 

rob allen

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Interesting



IMG_6698.gif
 

brian3180

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You must live a charmed life my friend. Not kidding. Next to the engine on my machine I'd rate chemical injection as the number 2 most problematic piece of hardware on it hands down by a large margin. I have replaced virtually every single part in my current system including the chemical pump, hoses, Dwyer meter, chemical check valve, and the 3 way valve. Many hundreds of dollars in parts, and guess what? It still doesn't work. :mad: I now know I need to replace the cheap 3 way valve I purchased AGAIN. It is evidently leaking between the 3 way ports. If I really didn't like the "idea" of last step injection I'd go out there right now and disconnect it and toss it in the trash! It is one of those "great ideas", but VERY poorly executed. I dislike them so much, that if I were to purchase another machine it WILL NOT have one on it if it has the chemical pulse pump made by General pumps. This one for anyone who doesn't understand. https://www.jondon.com/stainless-steel-chemical-pump-ss-diaph-general-pump.html
Now i'm sure mine will crap out this week. Atleast I know who I can goto for troubleshooting. :)
 

Bob Savage

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I use a Dwyer meter for chemical injection. It has worked flawlessly by itself for 35 years. To control the injection I also have a valve that can control the flow of incoming water into the Cat pump. If too much water is diverted into the pump, the injector doesn't work. There are no other parts in the system.
 

rob allen

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I use a Dwyer meter for chemical injection. It has worked flawlessly by itself for 35 years. To control the injection I also have a valve that can control the flow of incoming water into the Cat pump. If too much water is diverted into the pump, the injector doesn't work. There are no other parts in the system.

Nice Bob. Do you have a picture of your set up I could see?
 

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rob allen

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I just use a quarter inch brass valve shutoff its under the unit to down stream the chem . Works for me. jz

Can I see a picture Jack?
 

wandwizard

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No, but I will take some this week and post.
So, if I'm understanding you, you have no chemical injector whatsoever? How in the world is the chemical being drawn into the system? I'm totally at a loss. Is the pump itself somehow drawing it and you're using the Dwyer to restrict it? If that actually works I wonder why nobody else on earth has figured that out or maybe they just enjoy making these machines as difficult as humanly possible to work on! :banghead: Prochem, Hydramaster, Chemtex, and all the rest sure haven't made these chemical systems simple or easy to work on. I'm VERY interested in your solution.
 

wandwizard

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View attachment 95030
@rob allen I've thought about those injectors too, but from what I understand they need a certain amount of pressure, far beyond normal truck mount pressure to operate right so I never tried them. Maybe someone has figured out how to make one work with a truckmount, but I've not seen or heard of a single instance. I can figure that it would be possible to make a Dema injector work with the right tip installed and a little bit of work to figure out the dilution.

In all fairness, even though I'm frustrated I'm having problems with my injection again. The only real problem I've had with my General pulse pump since I bought it was a ruptured diaphragm. I am almost certain it happened when operating at about 1,000 psi for tile & grout. I am certain those diaphragms can't take very high pressures even though they are rated for 1,500 psi. I think the GP pulse pump with the red shut off valve is rated to 3,000 psi. You won't get too much out of one if you clean a lot of tile and grout I don't think and operate at even 1,000 psi for a few hours. The diaphragm simply can't take that kind of pressure very long. The 3 way valve is my current problem I'm pretty sure. Guess I'll have to pony up and spend 90 bucks or so for a Swagelok. Those cheap foreign made chemical 3 way valves are pure cheap crap. No wonder you can buy about 4 or 5 of them for the price of one Swagelok.

One other thing. Imho, ALL those chemical pulse pumps need a shutoff valve before them to shut off when working at high pressures.
 
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wandwizard

Randy Dockins
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Never heard of downstream injection, what is it exactly ?

1,000 hours in on my Apex 570 and the chemical pump still works just fine.
Does it happen to have this one on it or the cheaper one? Is it the General pumps or another brand? This one is rated for much higher pressures only because of the ball valve.
 

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