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2" Wand Tubing

racebum

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What westpak did you have? I got a used 2in. 14 wide 4 jet and I like how beefy it is but damn a glide is gonna cost more than the wand did.. they really help? Im almost thinking stick w the rotovac even tho I got an oreck orbiter and want to replace the agitation and dry the carpet faster.

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westpak sells glides directly for something like $100
 
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matt30577

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Not sure how you are going to test. Give me details.
The same way we tested in the bucket. I have a rectangular bucket made for window cleaning that's 5 gallons. I'll fill it to the top, time the suction on both wands and see the difference. That should give me some evidence of what has more suction
 

Jim Ellis

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The same way we tested in the bucket. I have a rectangular bucket made for window cleaning that's 5 gallons. I'll fill it to the top, time the suction on both wands and see the difference. That should give me some evidence of what has more suction
Actually not. If you are sucking up straight from the bucket then you are displacing air in the wand/vacuum line and, at that point, you are testing pure lift. I would bet the 1.5" does better with this kind of test but it doesn't give you a real life test unless all you do are floods. The 2" wand will give you a boost in cfm & allow faster lock down to achieve maximum lift - this of course is when you are cleaning with a wand as normal and not filling the wand with water which is meaningless.
 

racebum

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The same way we tested in the bucket. I have a rectangular bucket made for window cleaning that's 5 gallons. I'll fill it to the top, time the suction on both wands and see the difference. That should give me some evidence of what has more suction

this has no realistic value when it comes to carpet cleaning.

if you have a small blower that can not maintain velocity then you might notice greater airspeed with the 1.5" tube but that's all you're doing. it's like using a small nozzle on a blow gun with your air compressor to increase air speed, just in reverse
 

matt30577

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this has no realistic value when it comes to carpet cleaning.

if you have a small blower that can not maintain velocity then you might notice greater airspeed with the 1.5" tube but that's all you're doing. it's like using a small nozzle on a blow gun with your air compressor to increase air speed, just in reverse
I have a 4.5 blower, the perfect size for both wands. I agree with you on a smaller blower though. any blower under a size 4 blower should not use a 2" wand (my opinion). But since I use a bigger blower and have a 1.5 wand, I'm wondering if there's a noticeable difference between the two wands. My dry times are awesome and the suction literally pulls the carpet off the floor dramatically when I pull it up.
 

john gerding

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I started out with a 1.5" 2 jet wand back in the day Then I tried a 1.75" and finally I got my hands on a 2" and the difference is undeniable. Anyone not using a glided 2" wand with a truckmount is missing out bigtime.
 

Randy Stoker

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I switched over to a 2" tube years ago and never looked back. The vacuum is a lot stronger and you can use a wider wand. I currently use a 16" beast PMF that is my go-to wand. I have 2- 14" wands. One is a westpak and the other is the green glide- (CMP?) The key IMHO is to get a flexible 2" lead hose that you're not constantly wrestling with. Surprisingly dry time seem to be about the same with all of them.

I'm an anomaly. I actually like the weight of that 2"-16"wide beast with a glide. Most will say it's too heavy and clumsy. I feel it flushes out the carpets very good, covers a ton of sf/hour and I hardly ever get "chattering" because of the weight/design/ angle? I'm not sure, but it works for me.

When I use a porty and have to use a 1.5" I feel like I'm using a toy.
Got a link for that flexible 2" lead hose?
 

Randy Stoker

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You'll notice a big difference.

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ok i don't have the money for a new wand right now. I'm currently using a 1.5" with a 25' whip how much would it help if i change to 2" hose all the way to my 1.5" wand?

This bentley 12" only weighs 6lbs and has a 2' tube. It only has two jets though. On sale from $499.00 to $299.00. http://www.this company does not su...d=4807&zenid=ce3640f6d71e7e0805ed48520274e51c
 

Jim Ellis

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Just got my Bentley in - I ordered it Wednesday and it arrived today - pretty good service from Cobb! The wand seems solid - I'm sending it out on one of my TM's this weekend to have one of my techs test it.
 

Jim Ellis

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this has no realistic value when it comes to carpet cleaning.

if you have a small blower that can not maintain velocity then you might notice greater airspeed with the 1.5" tube but that's all you're doing. it's like using a small nozzle on a blow gun with your air compressor to increase air speed, just in reverse

True, but in reality I may have underestimated the distance it takes to create additional turbulence. In English just a few feet of wand tubing might be enough to introduce added turbulent flow when using 1.5" - I know there are no studies on this with carpet cleaning and nobody - ever - will spend that kind of money on research in an industry that still uses 30 year old technology so I'll have to guess. My guess is that initial air speed increase - within a few feet - encounters so much added turbulence that the actual air speed drops below what it would be in 2" tubing. I had an argument with Larry Cobb not too long ago about 2" vs 1.5" - I argued that the increased velocity of 1.5" would actually make it superior to 2" for short distances. Not true. If a 15' whip hose drops my perceived (sound) air flow dramatically (which it does) then you probably start to pay the price for using 1.5" tubing much faster then you (or I) thought.

One of my engineering buddies (from my past life) believes that the air rushing into the wand head might stay somewhat laminar in flow for about 5' - maybe despite the high velocity in which it enters. Eventually it will turn into turbulent flow where the air speed alone will create turbulence and slow down. Now factor in using 1.5" vs 2" and the turbulent wall is hit even faster. An example would be running water at too high of a speed through a hose - eventually the actual flow will be slowed down more then it would if the water was running at lower speed/pressure to begin with - the added turbulence from the water speed eventually becomes it's own worst enemy.

In short there are probably no advantages with using a 1.5" wand or hose and 2" is best all the way considering turbulence is our #1 enemy. The only exception I can think of is if you are using a porty with very very low lift (like 140" or less) and good cfm 150+ then you may want to increase turbulence at the very end (wand) to get as much final lift as possible - I don't know. However if you are using a high lift low cfm porty then you probably want 2" all the way just like with a TM.
 
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Jim Ellis

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True, but in reality I may have underestimated the distance it takes to create additional turbulence. In English just a few feet of wand tubing might be enough to introduce added turbulent flow when using 1.5" - I know there are no studies on this with carpet cleaning and nobody - ever - will spend that kind of money on research in an industry that still uses 30 year old technology so I'll have to guess. My guess is that initial air speed increase - within a few feet - encounters so much added turbulence that the actual air speed drops below what it would be in 2" tubing. I had an argument with Larry Cobb not too long ago about 2" vs 1.5" - I argued that the increased velocity of 1.5" would actually make it superior to 2" for short distances. Not true. If a 15' whip hose drops my perceived (sound) air flow dramatically (which it does) then you probably start to pay the price for using 1.5" tubing much faster then you (or I) thought.

One of my engineering buddies (from my past life) believes that the air rushing into the wand head might stay somewhat laminar in flow for about 5' - maybe despite the high velocity in which it enters. Eventually it will turn into turbulent flow where the air speed alone will create turbulence and slow down. Now factor in using 1.5" vs 2" and the turbulent wall is hit even faster. An example would be running water at too high of a speed through a hose - eventually the actual flow will be slowed down more then it would if the water was running at lower speed/pressure to begin with - the added turbulence from the water speed eventually becomes it's own worst enemy.

In short there are probably no advantages with using a 1.5" wand or hose and 2" is best all the way considering turbulence is our #1 enemy. The only exception I can think of is if you are using a porty with very very low lift (like 140" or less) and good cfm 150+ then you may want to increase turbulence at the very end (wand) to get as much final lift as possible - I don't know. However if you are using a high lift low cfm porty then you probably want 2" all the way just like with a TM.
Another note on this is that the friction loss of 1.5" hose is approximately 4x that of 2" hose at high air speed.
 

Randy Stoker

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Just got my Bentley in - I ordered it Wednesday and it arrived today - pretty good service from Cobb! The wand seems solid - I'm sending it out on one of my TM's this weekend to have one of my techs test it.
The only problem I ever had with mine is the jets clog even with an inline filter. I bought some filters for the jets and haven't had a problem since.
 
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Jim Ellis

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Verdict on Bentley so far... Not bad. Light - solid but did not seem to notice a difference then with a 1.5" wand - the noise seemed a little (air rushing in wand) lower but I did notice the glide had a leak which I sealed and should be fixed. The sound difference might also be the differn't head and carbon fiber tube vs the Westpak steel tubes-heads....
 

racebum

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Verdict on Bentley so far... Not bad. Light - solid but did not seem to notice a difference then with a 1.5" wand - the noise seemed a little (air rushing in wand) lower but I did notice the glide had a leak which I sealed and should be fixed. The sound difference might also be the differn't head and carbon fiber tube vs the Westpak steel tubes-heads....

velocity is lower on a 2" wand

if you measured the actual mph of the air on a 2" hose going to a 1.5" wand and 2" wand the 1.5" would have a faster mph. that does not however mean it will have more lift under load, it won't