Thread: 35K sq ft of CGD

Becuase the carpet is new, start with the encap cleaning. At least once per year do HWE. How often depdns upon traffic level and how much oil and grease will be in the environment.

Regarding costs for encapsulation cleaning, our premium encap product is Encapuclean Green Double Strength. At 32:1 each gallon makes 33 gallons of ready to use. Each gallon will clean on the avewrage 500 sq. ft. of moderately soiled carpet. Total 16,500 sq. ft from a gallon of concentrate. In cae lots, each gallon costs $33.75 for a cost of about 2/10 of a cent per square ft.

For labor costs, it will depend how many cubicles to manuever around and how much open space. Being conservative, once you get a little experience, you should have no trouble cleaning 2,000 sq. ft. per hour. You can probably go a little faster. But figure 17 1/2 man hours for all 35,000 sq. ft Add a bit for travel time, set-up and whatever.

A Cimex will do a fine job. However, my personal preference would be the BRush Pro LM counter-rotating brush machine. There is a 20" model for most places and a 17" wide model for places that are packed tight with furnishings.


The value of protectant depends upon the type of carpet fiber (most commercial is olefin but there is some nlyon out there as well.) and the types of soil encountered.

One great point about Encapuclean Green DS is that it has qualities like a protector built into it. This reduces the chances of wicking and makes future cleanings easier.

From the decription of thise situation, I would suggest not including protector as an additional charge. Just charge slightly more for the cleaning service and they will still get some value of protector.

However, if the carpet is nylon and/or you suspect a lot of liquid spills protector may be useful or maybe protector just in some areas such as near the coffee machine, in a lunch area or near the front entrance.

Get in touch. I'll help you get together a machine and chemical package.

Originally Posted by SDSinc

My understanding (from reading here!) is the cimex dose a little bit of a better, well maybe not better, but the production time is a little greater than a crb unit? Also are there warranty issues with a crb. I read some of the articles in the rags recently about that issue and it seemed there was no clear answer. Thanks for your help.

I have spoke directly with managers at the largest carpet manufacturers. None of them has any issues with a CRB machine. Several due have issues with rotary machines. Most consider "rotary" to be a 174 floor buffer machine, but a few folks would include Cimex in the category of a rotary machine.

I have used Cimex and Brush Pro and other CRB machines.
Cimex will have a faster production rate. About 20% faster in open areas by my testing. Not so much difference in tight quarters.
The Cimex is more aggressive. That can be seen as either a positive or a negative. For loosening lots of tracked in soil, its a plus. For preserving the carpet fiber, the aggressiveness may be a negative.
The CRB machines dig deeper down into the pile. This loosens more deeply embedded soil and also great for removing hair and similar soils.
CRB machines help the pile stnd up and look better than a Cimex or rotary machine that tends to push down on the fibers.
CRB machines - as a group - tend to bog down when starting in deeper pile carpet. This can be an annoyance. Some also have weak belts / gears that tend to need maintenance more often than they should. This is something we have upgrade several times on the Brush Pro machines and hope to improve still more in the future. I think the Brush Pro LM series is by far the best of the CRB machines.

Our store in Largo sells both the Cimex and the BRush Pro. The can arrange for you to do a side-byu-side comparison and try out either or both machines, Call John at 800 282-6130.

either way do the side by side comparison

and after doing so ask your self if you want to clean that much sq with the brush pro
this becomes the real question Scott. The technique with the brush pro will become tiring fast. Sure you can walk up and down with it but doing so will not provide excellent cleaning results, unless of course the carpet is new and quite clean.
Once it becomes dirty you will doing the back and forth method as demonstrated here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YHbx...eature=related

i think the brush pro is a neat machine just not for your specific situation. I will probably pick one up eventually for residential prescrubbing

if the crb is the method you would like to use like i mention check out the
http://store.ccsop.com/catalog/produ...products_id=80
or
http://www.orbitecsolutions.com/CBM_15.htm

tons of power, from what ive been told really pulls it self
and looks much more professional then the brush pro.

Both the above mentioned machines have much more weight to them as well definitely helping it the cleaning action. Something to also consider. 50 pounds vs 75-80+ a tank of chem

i hate for this becoming somewhat of a debate between Scott and i but since this is a new venture for you id much rather make sure its done right.

my preferred method now is strictly op cleaning Sdinc

some of my accounts are closing in on 3 years and havent been extracted since! Like i mentioned heavy food traffic. Since switched from my TM to low moisture the carpets are getting cleaner and staying cleaner for longer. Thats even under neglected vacuuming from the staff.

But OP for 35k would be allot of pads lol, you could always run a fiber plus pad under the orbot or ccs for example( same pad as the cimex) and just OP the bad area's as well.

The other nice thing about OP is the ability to do jaw dropping demo's to new prospects
what i do now is wait till the morning after it was cleaned by the local " big truck " guys and run a pad down the center of where they just cleaned..the look on their faces always makes my day. Because as we know simple wanding does NOT clean as deep as one would think whether its in a residential setting or commercial. Test that for your self if you go OP. Its a great way to set you apart from the average cleaner.
" oh hes just another carpet cleaner" unless of course the current cleaner is horrible. Hwe vs Hwe is sometimes a hard sell unless you can offer a cheaper price or some other incentive for switching. It could be that extra tool in your ...toolbox to help you get that new commercial account!

Tales From the Pad: Effects Of VLM Cleaning On Carpet (over an extended period of time)

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 Posted by JohnGeurkink
Many of the arguments against VLM cleaning (mainly in the bonneting or oscillating pad cleaning category) are that, over time, the build up of residue will "catch up to you" and it will be necessary to HWE (hot water extract) the carpets to remove this build-up. Often, carpet cleaners report that they use VLM intermittently as an "interim cleaning system". Most of the hotels and motels (that I have cleaned for) have expressed the same concern [That, while they have no problem with me using VLM, I must hot water extract the carpet at least once a year to keep it free of all the residue and soils deeply imbedded in the carpet fibers.]. Shaw Industries and other manufacturers of carpet have stated similar things in their carpet maintenance information, as well as, in their warranty statements. HWE is perceived as the method of choice, and looking at if from the outside, I can understand why they would feel this way. After all, doesn't it makes sense that rinsing the carpet would help remove these residues and using a system with high pressure (psi) and high vacuum (inches of mercury) would also remove any remaining, deeply embedded soils? Here are a few of the recommendations from the Carpet Manufacturers: Dupont StainMaster [ source: http://www.dupont.com/stainmaster/ch...mlife_new.html ] "Hot water extraction to refresh carpet texture, performed by a trained, qualified carpet care professional, is required at least every 1.5 to 2 years for coverage under this warranty. Please keep your receipts for proof of service." Wear Dated (formerly Monsanto) [ Source: http://www.wear-dated.com/care.htm ] Deep Cleaning 1. The Hot Water Extraction method (also known as steam). Light Surface Cleaning 1. Bonnet Cleaning, which utilizes a carbonated solution. An example of this type of cleaning is the Chem-Dry system. Shaw Industries (Berkshire Hathaway) [ source: http://www.greatfloors.com/carpetcare/cleaning.html ] Cleaning Tips
Hot Water Extraction System "Shaw Industries recommends the hot water extraction system, which research indicates provides the best capability for cleaning." So, it becomes painfully obvious that VLM cleaning is not the manufacturer's choice of cleaning methods. Now, does this mean we, as VLM-users, are second-class carpet cleaners? Does this suggest that we are not giving our customers the quality of cleaning that they are looking for, or paying for? Are we the "rip-off artists" that so many in this industry contend that we are? Can we have any confidence in our VLM systems and still have integrity in this industry? Like so many things in life, things are often not as they appear. So, what is the effect of using VLM cleaning on carpets over an extended period of time? If the manufacturers are correct, then the tell-tale signs of extended VLM usage should show up and there should be enough evidence that we see for ourselves that we are failing our customers and not offering the best in carpet care. The examples of evidence against this misguided philosophy are countless, but I will use just one of my favorite accounts to counter the contention that VLM is not a "complete" cleaning method. Richard works for a Golf Country Club. He started there when he was just 16 years old (as a bus boy). He has been involved with the country club for approximately 30 years. In that time, he has moved up the ladder to become the manager, moving through house cleaning and maintenance to get there. Richard had one major obstacle in his job as manager the carpets. He would have them regularly cleaned and they would look bad again, in no time. Over a period of 5 years, the carpet's appearance grew worse and worse. He went through most of the cleaners in the phone book. They all promised him a great cleaning job. They all promised him that the carpet could be maintained so that it stayed looking great. All failed to live up to these promises. The carpet finally came to the point where, after having been cleaned just two weeks before, it appeared just as dirty as it was before it was cleaned. He even used an IICRC instructor's company to clean it, in hopes of returning the carpet to a good shape again, but all to no avail. Sometimes, he was having the carpet cleaned every two weeks, trying different companies each time in hopes of finding some solution to his depressing situation. The guests were starting to complain, and in the Country Club business, that is something that will cause your termination faster than anything. In 1998 Richard gave my wife, Patty, a call, he was referred to us by one of their guests, a customer of ours who has a lot of woolen floor coverings we have maintained for years. Well, he was looking for something different, a "no steam" process was tough for him to consider, though. However, after the track record of the past few years, he was willing to give anything a try, plus that "1-hour dry time" would save him a lot of time on getting the place set up for guests after the cleaning.
I arrived at 9 AM one morning and met with him. He took me through the Country Club and showed me his carpets. Yuck! They were very nasty, even though they had been cleaned just a couple of weeks previously. When he asked me if I could get them clean, I stated, "Sure, this is just a cut nylon commercial grade carpet. It will be easy to clean! However, the first time is going to take me a while, because I can see it has a ton of built up grease and soil in it." Of course, the first words out of Richard's mouth were, "They have all said that". Noticing his apprehension, I told him I would clean a strip right across his heaviest traffic area and if it didn't stand out from the rest of the carpet, two weeks from now, he shouldn't call me. I realized that this was going to be a tough test because all that old grease and such would be tracked onto the cleaned strip, but I felt that this was the only way for him to have confidence in us to be able to take care of his problem. Two weeks later, we were called to come and clean for him. "Yes sir, there was gold in them thar hills!" That carpet was filthy and we worked and worked, going through 250 pads on the downstairs alone, but it looked like new! He was happy but still doubted that they would stay looking nice. Well, they did and we suggested a maintenance-cleaning schedule of every three months, which of course thrilled him. 3 months later, the carpets still did not look bad, so for the next two years we cleaned this carpet every three months. It eventually came to the point where it only took 90 pads to clean the entire downstairs, so for the last 2 years we have cleaned it only once every 4 months. Yesterday, we again finished another cleaning at the country club. It didn't look dirty when we got there, but looked new when we left. Richard gave us the highest compliment we could get as cleaners. He stated to Patty, "For all these years, the thing Ihated most about my job was the carpet maintenance. Thanks to you and your method of cleaning, now I never even think about it!" Consider The Implications This carpet was cleaned over and over, HWE after HWE, and yet the soil and grease was embedded into it so deeply that it would not stay looking good. Removing that soil and grease with pads had "eliminated" all those problems.
So, I ask you, who knows carpet maintenance better? Is it the manufacturer or is it the cleaner? The old saying is that, "the proof is in the pudding". Well, ladies and gentlemen, the proof is in the lasting effects of our VLM cleaning.

Another Point To Ponder I ask this question, "Is interim carpet cleaning with bonnets and pads followed by, at least, once a year of HWE, making pad cleaning look good as an interim carpet cleaning method or could it be that the pad and bonnet cleaning actually is making the HWE job
look good?"
I, personally from my experience of 28 years, would contend that it is the latter rather than the former. John Geurkink

Originally Posted by JOhn Geurkink

Thanks for posting that Dustin, as I was reading the thread I noticed the "but you should HWE at least once a year".

I haev a country club that used to be cleaned every couple of weeks, the local boys could not get it cleaned up, now 17 years of OPing and we do it ONCE A YEAR, that is right, once a year! That whole line of having to hwe to rinse the carpet is false, the only reason to rinse is if you are NOT cleaning the carpet correctly. That would equate to, "well hwe it regulary but make sure you OP or bonnet it at least once a year to make sure the carpet is clean" how ridiculous, either you are CLEANING the carpet or you are not.

Reread that I wrote Vacuum Vacuum Vacuum from the extraction as insurance, if you have oped for 17 years the traffic is light and the general cleaning is good then, REAL good.

Having a background in Building Service Contractor i have seen how these different variables work off each other, sometimes it is a simple as the cleaning people are using a vacuum with no bag and no beater bar or broken. Several variables involved you have to troubleshoot and ask questions this is how you solve problems

I equally have seen it the other way where we were the cleaner and the customer brought carpet cleaner in and did a terrible job, with massive resoiling.

Actually this place has a weekly prime rib buffet on the carpet, it is a tough job, and like I stated the previous cleaners ( 7 of them) couldn't get it to stay clean, incredible wickbacks.

But the point it, if you clean it correctly, the job lasts.