This weeks rug is another 7x9 loaded with cat hair. So let's test your knowledge. What is it,where was it made and how would you clean it?
Re: Rug Spa-Weekly Rug #2 Hi Rob, I think it is a 3rd quarter 20th century Persian rug. If the knots are Asym it is from the province of Arak. maybe a small mahal or mushkabad. If the knots are Sym it is a bazzar grade Tabriz. I am basing that on a few things. The simple over wrapped selvages are typically Persian. The foundation is cotton. There is not a lot of pile. It is what my dear friend Uncle jimmy keshishian used to call "All Back" which is a way of saying on the lowend rugs it looks like a rug but when you feel it it is all back or foundation. I don't think at this age this rug is an obvious bleeder but normal caution should be taken. Thanks for the image, Barry http://www.PersianCarpetGuide.com
Re: Rug Spa-Weekly Rug #2 I agree as to origin, my first thought was it is made in India or Persia. This type of wool rug can be prone to bleeding and will shrink with high heat. I know you do submersion cleaning, but for anybody using a truckmount to clean rugs after testing for colorfastness I recomend low heat for cleaning this rug. I would limit the heat to 130 or less and use a neutral oriental rug shampoo.
Re: Rug Spa-Weekly Rug #2 If your going to use a truckmount, use no heat. Heat will cause dyes to bleed even in a rug that has no propensity to bleed. Even an Afghan bleeder won't even shift colors with cold water using a mount. Be careful with the cleaner you use, most oriental shampoo's will create residue that is impossible to get out with a truckmount and at times hours in a pit if you wet wash. I don't use Paul Lucas stuff but my friends that do say his surfactants rinse very well as there are no fillers tha make it difficult to rinse out. My recommendation is If you don't have a badger or comprssed air system use Sanitiare beater bars to dust. NeutrL ph cleaner Soft nylon brush Apply and scrub after a dust Then rinse and extract with cold water Results are great if you can't pit wash or arnt confident with managing Dyes
Re: Rug Spa-Weekly Rug #2 Hey Pablo, It was great to see you on the Great NYC Rug Tour this weekend. You make some excellent points in your post. LST from ChemMax would be a good choice for a good cleaner with very little residue. Best wishes, Barry O’Connell http://SpongoBongo.com
Re: Rug Spa-Weekly Rug #2 Hi Tron, If I were a robot I could spell better I am just a guy who set out years ago to learn Oriental Rugs. I follow rugs like some guys follow sports or guns. Barry http://www.SpongoBongo.com
Re: Rug Spa-Weekly Rug #2 The cotton fringe appears to pre-made machine fringe sewn onto the end(s) the foundation looks to be all wool. I would like to see pic of the whole rug if possible? The warp wraps on the end think it could be a Kurd bidjar
Re: Rug Spa-Weekly Rug #2 I am inclined to doubt that it is a Kurdish Bijar. A Kurd Bijar should have a warp offset of 80 to 90 degrees. This one is depressed but not nearly that much. As for a wool foundation I doubt it from what I see. But my XRay vision is not what it used to be I would expect to see more pile in a Bijar. Barry http://www.SpongoBongo.com
Re: Rug Spa-Weekly Rug #2 So... knowing where the rug is from does NOT impact how you clean it. Just FYI. If a rug is woven, and constructed of wool and cotton, you wash them the same no matter if its Kurdish, Romanian, Chinese, Indian, Turkish, or Moroccan. What affects how you wash it is, fiber type, dye stability, construction type, and pre-existing conditions. But... it's always nice to see Barry share his rug ID wisdom. =) We have to get you a cape for your super powers! Lisa
Re: Rug Spa-Weekly Rug #2 So... knowing where the rug is from MAY impact IFyou clean it. Wool is wool and cotton is cotton but the more Rug ID you know the more your customers will trust you to clean their better rugs. Our friend Nathan told me that Rug ID is his most important marketing tool. When Harold Keshishian got sick he asked me to come in and help out on Saturdays A big part of it was so that when the customers came in there was someone there who had that expertise to tell a 1880 Tabriz from a 1900 Tabriz rug. It may sound like a small thing but when customers feel that you really know rugs they feel cmfotable in trusting you with their treasures. Best wishes, Barry O'Connell http://www.SpongoBongo.com
You are right Barry. I started teaching in this industry because the instructors were focusing on saying you MUST identify where a rug is from to clean it. That is not true. You wash a Karastan, a Sarouk, a 90-line Chinese, the same. What matters is they are wool, not where they are from. Get that piece right first, knowing how to clean natural fiber rugs. Then learn ID, because that is a marketing tool. I've seen too many cleaners take the RCT to learn how to ID rug origins, and they can't wash a **** rug well. So the teaching has been backwards. So thank you for mentioning it's a marketing skill. I say that too. Great minds think alike. Lisa
Re: Rug Spa-Weekly Rug #2 Great point Lisa. Back in the old days with old fashioned cleaning solutions and nothing but vinegar if it starts to bleed knowing an Afghan from a Karastan was important. But we have come a long way in 10 years. I remember spending some time with Nathan Koets back in 01 or 02 as he showed me how to wash a bleeder. Compare that to today and it has all changed. With the solutions available today average joes can wash a rug that they would have ruined or sent to a specialist 10 years ago. Using product like Dye-loc, AntiDye, or any of these alcohol hard acid urine rinses we can do stuff that is incredible. With the proper instruction it becomes a simple process of following the proper procedures. That is why I urge washers to get good training. What is a real problem is when the washer cannot tell if it is machine made or hand woven he is going to look foolish in front of his customers. Looking foolish is not a good thing. Imaging if you went to your Dr. with a stomach pain and the doc grabs a book and says give me a minute while I look up where the stomach is. But rug ID is only part of marketing. I heard a funny Piranha story on the New York Rug Tour. One of the guys told about when his parents went to a Piranha get-together. His mother was upset with Joe and the way he presented. His father came home from the session and implemented what Joe said and got an immediate 6 figure increase in monthly revenue. Now that was on carpet and restoration but it shows how important getting the right plan and working it can be. It also shows don’t judge a book by its cover. Best wishes, Barry O’Connell Http://www.PersianCarpetGuide.com
Re: Rug Spa-Weekly Rug #2 Did you notice my post got CENSORED? LOL... I didn't even think Hoover Dam was crossing a line. This site is the opposite of ***********, where you get bashed if you don't swear. =) Lisa P.S. Barry, it is always good to know more than your clients. Hopefully they come to you because they want an expert. My point was more that "some" instructors out there (who have university textile degrees) would write that if you can't ID it, you can't wash it - and that's just not true. This industry needs more rug cleaners, so that harms consumers by putting up a big barrier that is not necessary. A lot of times though, instructors are focused on what is best for THEM instead of what is best for the cleaners, and their clients. Not all of them are this way... but some are. Thanks again.
Re: Rug Spa-Weekly Rug #2 I know exactly what you mean. There is one training course around that is primarily for 3rd generation Moore Plant Operators. I recently spoke to someone who took the $6,000 q week course and he said that they were not going to wash any rugs until he insisted that was the reason he came. I do not mean to knock them. They perform a valuable service for a certain clientele. I have a friend who is an executive with a big rug washing company. The company he runs was started by his grandfather and while the company cleans a lot of rugs this guy has not personally washed a rug since working summers in High School. For someone like that it makes perfect sense to pay SIXTHOUSAND DOLLARS A WEEK and fly to Texas. For people who are actually going to wash rugs. Someone who wears rubber boots rather than a tie I recommend the course the Lisa Wagner and Jim Pemberton teaches or the classes from Paul Lucas and Nathan Koets. I don’t know Ruth Travis but I am looking forward to learning more about her courses. What I see that real rug washers need is not about cleaning juice or expensive equipment. What they need to know is how to get the rugs clean safely and efficiently. When an old technology course tries to say you need rug ID to wash a rug they need to come up to modern times. Best wishes, Barry O’Connell http://www.SpongoBongo.com
Re: Rug Spa-Weekly Rug #2 Wow... my mention of another forum got censored. This feels a little like Big Brother here. =) You should never be that nervous about competition... I'm not. It's a good thing you have a forum here Rob, now you can get free rug ID on the rugs you get in, and you don't have to take the $6,000 class. Maybe you can send Barry a Christmas gift though since he's helping so much. =) Lisa
Re: Rug Spa-Weekly Rug #2 [MENTION=712]LisaWagner[/MENTION] (wow starting to really like this facebook tagging feature here too lol) - - anyways, we have always blocked out a couple other forums out there since day 1 of this site, they do the same....it automatically changes to *** same with curse words lol... I dont see phenomenal products or howard links on your rug blog btw, Ill be out in cali in a couple weeks....basically during thanksgiving weekend in LA - how far are you from there? (san diego area) - would love to check out your shops
Re: Rug Spa-Weekly Rug #2 I guess I never saw you two as competitors, you have different crowds on both sites. But I guess that makes sense. We will be closed for Thanksgiving - sorry! Giving my crew a week off - yay! Lisa
I just moved into a new appartment and am looking for new rugs as my old ones didn’t make it. I saw this rug of amy butler(http://www.domesticmodern.com) and wanted to know if anyone knew of a store online with good art work to match?
