Rugs I picked up today-Lisa Wagner/Dusty Roberts/Scott Warrington

Re: Rugs I picked up today

Front and back photos of each rug would help to better identify the rugs.

You might have to re-fringe that ink spot.

Submertion works best for urine.

I would block that uneven rug and have the client sign a waiver.

You already took photos for documentation which is good.

Hard to tell value. Looks like the typical rugs I get.

Rob,

All are hand woven, so in my eyes they are all valuable, because they took months and months to hand craft.

First of all, the fact that they don't pick up their dogs cr*p is disgusting. You need to make a point to the client that the rugs need to be deodorized as well as washed. If there is urine decontamination then you will need to fully immerse them. So you need to aggressively test the dyes to see which ones are NOT colorfast, because you may not be able to immerse if you have a dye problems - though most of these don't by photo look to be a problem (except perhaps #1 and #3) - but you need to test them.

Any with pet urine of any significant amount WILL bleed in those specific urine affected areas - so you need a waiver acknowledging that these rugs are urine-contaminated, and though you can stabilize the dyes on all of them during the cleaning process (if you have the right solution for this) - you canNOT guarantee that the areas exposed to urine will not bleed on you. That's what happens.

Make sure you have a good urine decontamination solution for the urine affected areas to pre-soak before the wash, a good rug dye stabilizer, a good rug shampoo, and great rinsing agent. I don't know how you get moisture out of the rugs after the bath, but the claw on these, with them being so large will suck and take forever - so I'd use a Dri-Eaz Rover for extraction - if you own one, then you know how to use this the best. If you have an Extreme Extractor - I've had problems with that on making marks on the rugs that can't come out, I like the Rover's glides for that reason.

Drying in sunlight will help speed up the drying and remove odor more as well - but if it's super strong sunlight, dry them face down so you don't have fading on the front.

I'd attack the ink spot with Fels Naptha - you will know quickly if it's a lost cause or not.

Hope that helps. Get the waiver - pet damage always makes even the safest cleaning dangerous...

Lisa

For those that are colorfast but have urine contamination, I would soak in a solution with TCU Neutralizer. This will assist in removing alkaline salts as well as the lipids (chloresterol) in the urine. Once the salt and oily portion of the urine are removed, the rest is easier to remove.

Length of time to soak depends upon the degree of contamination, several hours or maybe overnight.

I like to keep the water circulating in the soak pit. A little sump pump at one end (the low end if you can set up the pit on a slight slant) and the discharge from the pump on the high end.

In my testing, the Rover did not remove great amount of water on some rugs when the plastic liner was directly under the rug. The plastic limited air flow through the rug. I have not tried it, but I wonder if a grating or even a pad under the rug would allow more water removal. The best tool I have used is the Flash Xtractor. The different pattern on the base allows it to pull more water than Rover or Water Claw when rug was directly on the floor or a liner.

For the ink, put your vacuum hose under the stain while applying and working in PIG or Oink on the surface. This lets the disolved ink be vacuumed away before it has a chance to spread.

Pour white vinegar on the SPECIFIC areas of pet stains, and use the water claw to remove the urine salts - do it until the water you see in the claw does not look yellow. Then wash the rug. (Meaning - you do not have to soak the entire rug a long time... the longer you soak a rug, even in acetic acid, you will risk bleeding it.)

The Rover covers more space, and pulls out more water than using the claw or xtractor - which has very limited space it can cover even if you weight a lot and can pull out more water with that advantage. The claw will also work better with some compression underneath, just as Scott remarked with the rover. I'll use a sturdy Durahold pad for this - or just do it completely on a solid surface (no tarp).

You should already have a price of what you charge per sq ft and urine decontamination - giving you my prices for my method is irrelevant to you. We aren't doing the same thing, and I guarantee odor removal - and don't know if you can do the same with the temporary pit.

Hope that helps,
Lisa

Rob or Lisa, would it be at all possible to get a copy of the waiver that the both of you use. Thanks!

aysvend@yahoo.com

Darn good advice. There's only one Rug Chick...
Submersion washing rocks, but it's also like opening Pandora's box. The more water you use, the greater the potential for stuff to go wrong.
Treat the stains as Lisa said (although I prefer ChemMax's Sure Color Stabilizer - I hate that vinegar smell! and you should be fine, although remember that acids set dye stains on wool, and that includes urine. Compared to bleeding, it's usually the lesser of two evils for most cleaners. As for the ink, I too always start with Fels and use a stainless steel perforated spotting board behind the stain (I got mine from ChemMax). Other safe products to test are Go-Jo and Purell. If those don't work CAREFULLY snip a single fringe strand or two and try testing oxidizers or a strong stripper like Yellow-Go.
On the subject of urine stain removal, on these rugs you should be OK using CTI's USR or Stain Magic for Wool, with the possible exception of the creme-colored areas of rug #1. Even so, I'd inform the customer of the risks (good color loss, texture change) and let them make the call re: oxidizer use. If you get the green light, test ALL the rugs urine stains in an inconspicuous area (like on the back side), allow to fully dry, then assess the results. Obviously the safest option (liability-wise) is to promise the stains will remain, and leave them alone.
I use signed work orders that spell out the problems/damage, and only guarantee odor removal. Under promise & over deliver, guys & gals.
As for pricing, it's all over the board, but I think you should at least get a couple bucks a SF if you are extracting, and more if you are washing (more risk/liability/problem solving should mean greater reward).
You do NOT need to know ID to clean rugs, but FYI: #1 is Iranian, #2 is from India, #3 is Iranian, #'s 4,6,& 8 are 1950's Iranian Kermans (or Kirman if you prefer), #5 is a Pakistani copy of a Persian Tabriz hunting rug, and #7 is another India rug made in Jaipur. None are super valuable, but some people collect the Kermans and the large one is nice. I find customers do like to know what they have, and are much more at ease when you know what they have.
Go get 'em!

NK

Nathan - you will be VERY happy to know that Sapphire Scientific has come out with a kick-butt pure acid that has NO vinegar smell, is more reactive than the original acetic acid dilution, and is being put in ONE jug for all of its uses - dye stabilizer, acid rinse, browning correction, urine pre-treatment - instead of what other company's would do (i.e. have FOUR different jugs of the SAME product, just different names so you get nailed to buy more items.)

I tested this over the summer, and at my last workshop - and we will be playing with it more at the Piranha Conference at my "real dirt on rug cleaning" session. =)

Jim Pemberton has also used it to RESTORE browned, damaged natural fine fabric (stuff you normally would try to bleach to fix, and get it stiff and damaged but looking better) - but this acid worked to truly restore that furniture, no stiffness, no deterioration.

I think this will be a game-changer for rugs... as well as a few other items they are bringing out for textiles. I'll send you more info when I get it.

Thanks for coming here and posting - it's nice to see an "expert" coming to share.

Lisa

Courts HATE small fine print that releases you from all liability.

So hand writing "pet stains are permanent... dyes will migrate because of urine contamination... etc." and having them sign next to these clearly worded comments is the best.

Lisa

This is all tremendous advise, but I gotta insist that the very first thing you need to do here Rob is get yourself to a Hands-on, boots-on rug class before ever attempting to do rugs like this, it is just not worth the risk to your clients rugs and your reputation.

There are great teachers in this industry that you will all learn from, and for myself I have taken most classes with the exception of Lisa's and Phils in Colorado.

My list of rug classes are:
-Aaron Groseclose's 2 day RCT class on the road (recommmened as a start to rug ID and theory, but not hands on so not good enough to learn how to safely wash rugs)
-RIA/NIRC rug class, this is taught in 2 sessions and is very advanced and expensive and I am not sure if there will be anymore-maybe Lisa can fill us in on that.
-RugMaster in Dallas, again a 2 session, very advanced class, first session in the spring with a follow up in the fall with the Legend, Ellen Amirkhan and assisted by Aaron Groseclose
RCT hands-on, boots-on with Ruth Travis and Jeff Bishop and is a fantastic 3 days class that gets better all the time.

Oh yeah, I will also point out that even when you do take the appropriate training you will still have hic-ups, but the great thing is that when the inevitabe does happen you don't have to buy your client a new rug,, (like i did several times as i had no training or on-line support) because you can reach out for help on here or my board to get some real help to correct the situation

Here is a link to the rughub where I keep all rug classes posted
http://therughub.com/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl? (look for the yellow highlights)

My dad is fond of this definition of an expert: "x" is an unknown quantity, and "spurt" is a drip under pressure, lol. That's me!

LOL>. thanks for the chuckle Nate, say hi to pops for me!