How do you stop berber wick-backs?

Discussion in 'General Carpet Cleaning & Upholstery Discussion' started by VCS, May 30, 2008.

  1. VCS New Member

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Message Count:
    350
    Location:
    VA
    Ratings Received:
    +9 / 0 / -0
    Real Name:
    Keith
    Had a carpet cleaner call me today who said he rarely gets a callback exept for berber carpet. Says it looks great when he leaves but a week later spots re-appear. I know what I do but want to know what you do to prevent this situation. So please, do tell lol.:D

    Keith.

    PS:His exact situation;

    Berber den.
    Lots urine stains.
    Presprayed with ultrapac
    Rinsed w/TM and w/clear water.
    Dried to 75% w/air movers before leaving.
    Customer called 4 days later seeing spots.
    He recleaned w/clear water and dried it better.

    He asked me will spots reappear again???

    Keith.
  2. TMF New Member

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2007
    Message Count:
    4,548
    Ratings Received:
    +376 / 0 / -0
    If it was heavy urine I would have used a pad extractor. On some houses I even peel back the carpet and replace their padding. Also let the cutomer know not to step back onto the carpet until it drys. But hopefully the spots wont reappear again Keith. Time will tell :)
  3. Rob Allen Administrator

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2007
    Message Count:
    12,195
    Location:
    Va.
    Ratings Received:
    +2,306 / 0 / -0
    Real Name:
    Robert Allen,Jr.
    Business Location:
    United States
    These are the best suggestions I have found. So choose one grasshopper!


    1)You can pull the carpet back and do the proper procedure for a major urine treatment.
    2) Pour a gallon of your favorite urine killer mix and claw it - do this several times and you should flush enough out to stop that kind of wick back.
    3)You can pull the pad and replace areas of concern .I know it may be hard or imposible to do. And then clean the back of the carpet too.
    4)Simple, cheap & effective= Bridgepoint's encapuguard. Not really solving their problem, but will prevent wick-backs!
    5)Rinse thorough and apply water on the pull/back stroke only! Too many cleaners apply water on the forward stroke and expect no wickback.
    6)Clean with wand. then run buffer with absorbant pad over.
    7)The "wicking" problem on berber style carpet is because the carpet fiber is olefin....I hate that stuff! Olefin has 0% absorbancy(sp)and so when you clean, the moisture goes into the backing(where the stain residue is)and as the carpet dries, the residue wicks to the surface. The key is to explain this to the customer and tell them how they can correct spots the wicking. I tell customers to take a warm, wet, cotton towel and wipe the residue from the surface of the fiber. This often saves us from having to return to the job site for wicking issues.
    8)What I do is spray oxygen bleach on every berber job. I have found this reduces wicking in most cases!

    Considering all options it would seem the encap rinse or pad-cap method may be the best option. H

    Rob Allen.
  4. jimmy crawford New Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2008
    Message Count:
    64
    Location:
    Newport, South Wales
    Ratings Received:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    To clean berber carpet you must first understand what it is, and the chemistry needed to clean it. First let's talk about what it is. Berber, or loop pile carpet, is usually made from olefin (also called polypropylene). This "plastic" is oleophyllic, which means it likes oils. Over time the oils will not only stick to it, but stain permanently. The other problem with olefin carpets is the fact that they are not resilient, meaning they do not hold a twist or shape for very long. This contributes to the "matted" or flat traffic areas we have all seen with berber. The benefit of olefin carpet is the fact that it is almost completely non-absorbant, making it very stain resistant, except for oils as mentioned above. However, this creates another problem you will face with olefin carpets:wicking. Because it does not absorb, whatever is spilled, or whatever cleaning agent is sprayed onto it, goes right to the backing. Later on, the spots or chemicals come back up to the tips of the fibers in a process called wicking. (just like the oil flowing up the wick on an oil lamp).

    Now, let's talk about cleaning. As mentioned above, the main problems for cleaners who are attempting to clean this type of carpet are going to be:

    1. Oils stuck to the fibers
    2. matted down traffic areas
    3. chemicals and spills under the carpet that may return

    First, I would recommend making a trip to your chemical supplier to find out if they have cleaners for olefin. If not, use your best pre-spray, but add 2ounces boosting agent (oxidizer) and 10 ounces citrus solvent. Both of these should be readily available to you from your supplier or online. Pre-spray, let dwell for ten minutes, then extract with an acid based rinse, making sure to do an extra dry pass or two. Use fans to dry if you have them. The oxidizer will help "bleach out" the stained fibers, and the citrus will help remove the oils. The acid rinse will minimize the possibility of wicking, as will the dry pass.

    With this basic knowledge, you should be able to do a very good job. You should also educate your client with the info I have provided in the description. Not only will your client have more confidence in your abilities, but will be less likely to blame you when that big soda stain comes back up after you clean. You should also make them aware that olefin carpet does not "perk up" after cleaning, it stays flat, or goes back to flat very quickly. For this reason the traffic areas are going to forever look different, because the light does not reflect off of the carpet at the same angle as the rest of the carpet.

    Berber 80/20 wool/nylon
    Wool is not that difficult to clean. There are some pros and cons that I would like to point out first. Keep in mind that wool is a protein fiber (natural) much like our own hair.

    Pros:
    1. Wool is an excellent insulator. Great for northern climates, bad for my area (southwest).
    2. Wool has the best resiliency of any carpet. (holds up better)
    3. Wool hides dirt better than any carpet I have seen. The reason for this is that wool is opaque, meaning not transparent. You should see the pounds of dirt I have pulled out of a wool area rug that didn't look that bad at all.
    4. Wool tends to release soils very easily.

    Cons:
    1. Very easily stained. Wool is very absorbent, and will take dye very well, such as fruit drinks and wine and other acids. If it can dye or damage your hair, it can damage wool.
    2. Very stinky when you clean it.
    Wool can be heat set very easily. Just like curling your hair with a curling iron, wool can be distorted by high tempuratures. This also means that tooling marks can result from the cleaning process, which can be permanent.
    4. It costs a fortune!

    With this info in mind, my strategy for cleaning wool is as follows:
    Use a pre-spray that is designed to be "wool safe", Prochem has a line for this. If you cannot find any, you must use a pre-spray that has a ready to use PH of less than ten. Actually less than nine is better. Test your chemical on the rug to check for dye stability. Set your tempurature on your machine to 175 degrees max. or less. Pre-spray one room. Extract using an acid rinse (around 3 to 5 rtu). Do an extra dry pass! Groom carpet straight away to remove cleaning lines and to set nap. Put fans on carpet to speed drying.
    That's it!
    Jimmy
  5. TheEyeball Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2008
    Message Count:
    6,553
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    Ratings Received:
    +2,249 / 1 / -3
    Real Name:
    Ross Trittipo
    Business Location:
    United States
    Holy cow those are some novels. Light prespray, low pressure clean. If stains come back within a couple days overspray with Pro's Choice USR. Done.

    I never have problems with berber.
  6. VCS New Member

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Message Count:
    350
    Location:
    VA
    Ratings Received:
    +9 / 0 / -0
    Real Name:
    Keith
    What is USR???
  7. TheEyeball Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2008
    Message Count:
    6,553
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    Ratings Received:
    +2,249 / 1 / -3
    Real Name:
    Ross Trittipo
    Business Location:
    United States
    Urine Stain Remover. Pro's Choice makes it. I don't know what I'd do without it.
  8. TMF New Member

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2007
    Message Count:
    4,548
    Ratings Received:
    +376 / 0 / -0
    Anyone else want to contribute to this?
  9. farleycarpet New Member

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Message Count:
    628
    Location:
    Surprise, Arizona
    Ratings Received:
    +53 / 0 / -0
    Real Name:
    Brian Farley
    Business Location:
    United States
    I agree this stuff is awesome
  10. Doug Cox New Member

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2008
    Message Count:
    34
    Location:
    Delavan, WI
    Ratings Received:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    The drier you leave the carpet, the less chance there is of it wicking. The carpet should feel relatively dry after cleaning or it's too wet.
  11. Elwood J New Member

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2006
    Message Count:
    175
    Location:
    Sedro-Woolley, WA
    Ratings Received:
    +6 / 0 / -0
    Does she still have the PET???? They make spots come back too!!!

    After doing a spot and you think or are afraid it might come back, cover with an absorbant like a weighted towel, an absorbant powder ie. host, capture or Diatamatious earth have client vacuum in a day or two.
  12. James Cooper WOC Head

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Message Count:
    518
    Location:
    WOC Town,USA
    Ratings Received:
    +114 / 0 / -0
    Real Name:
    James Cooper
    what Doug said , but you still need to give a good flushing and make adequete dry strokes - you do that and your gonna get great dry times and fewer wickbacks .
  13. Big_Dog New Member

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Message Count:
    163
    Location:
    Georgia
    Ratings Received:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    Real Name:
    Scott Moody
    Business Location:
    United States
    If we have a wick-back problem on berber, just go back and clean it with an GOOD encap product and a osciallating pad machine. This will remove the surfact spot and any part of the spot wicking back up will be encapsulated as it dries.;)
  14. TheEyeball Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2008
    Message Count:
    6,553
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    Ratings Received:
    +2,249 / 1 / -3
    Real Name:
    Ross Trittipo
    Business Location:
    United States
    Agreed. If you don't have any sort of bonnet/pad machine a deck brush will do the same thing.
  15. Big_Dog New Member

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Message Count:
    163
    Location:
    Georgia
    Ratings Received:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    Real Name:
    Scott Moody
    Business Location:
    United States
    Just don't let your client see you use that deck brush, or they might try that the next time.
  16. Rambo New Member

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2006
    Message Count:
    258
    Location:
    McDonough, Georgia
    Ratings Received:
    +9 / 0 / -0
    Real Name:
    Ray Moody
    Rob first addressed the fact that Berber is a style, not a type of carpet. When I ask my customers what type of carpet you have they will say "berber" Then I have to ask; is it wool berber, or nylon berber, a blend like 80/20 or is it olefin, 100% olefin or a blend of 80% olefin and 20% nylon?????? Then the blank stares come. Wool absorbs up to 30% of it's weight in moisture (water or chems) easy to clean. and on the other end 100% olefin, absorbs 1/10th of 1% of it's weight in moisture, difficult to clean, Sooooo, then in lies the cleaning challange. VLM (very low moisture) works for us.

Share This Page

Users found this page by searching for:

  1. how to stop wicking in carpet