Freeze/Thaw???

Discussion in 'Ask Our Chemist!' started by Ara Klujian, May 7, 2009.

  1. Ara Klujian Moderator & TMF Repair Expert

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    How do you tell if a liquid chemical has been subjected to freezing temperatures? Also, I have a gallon of Glacial Acidic Acid and there appears to be something at the bottom of the jug that looks like a block of ice. The jug is at room temp. Could this be the result of freezing or is the gallon just old?
  2. Scott W Preferred Vendor

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    You can't always tell if something has been frozen and then thawed. However, most products that are damaged by freezing will separate or form layers. This is best seen in a clear container. So you may want to pour the product into a clear plastic or glass bottle or bowl and then give it a few hours. See if you notice layers.

    Some ingredients may be only 1% or less of the total but they are important. So watch for even a thin layer.

    Glacial acetic acid is called "glacial" because it is a solid near room temperature. I don't recall the exact temperature but I think it is in the high 60's F. So that solid may just be some of the galcial acetic acid.

    Freezing and thawing GA should not be a problem.

    Scott W
  3. JStafford TMF Hard Surface Specialist

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    Scott is right about GA being OK. I am unsure of the differences between Glacial Acetic and Glacial Acrylic but I would warm it gradually. Glacial Acrylic can be quite dangerous if it is warmed to rapidly. Just to be safe bring the temp up slowly.

    Like I said, I am unsure of the differences but Glacial Acrylic can polymerize and literally explode if warmed to quickly. At my old job, we had a drum lid shoot through the plant roof because we tried to heat it to quickly. It was frozen completely though...

    Never can take to many precautions.

    Joe
  4. Ara Klujian Moderator & TMF Repair Expert

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    Thank you for your replies. Scott, I only see one jug that is forming this solid amongst 4 others on the same shelf. The other day I had a yellow correction job. So I used one of my open jugs first with poor results. The next day I decided to try a new jug with fresh chem and the yellowing was removed. That is why I am thinking some of my jugs have been subjected to freezing also. Because the open jug came from my van that was subjected to winter conditions. Any thoughts?
  5. Scott W Preferred Vendor

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    True glacial acetic acid has very little water in it. So the freezing point of water does not have much affect on it. However, heat, age and contamination all play a role in it breaking down.

    GA is usually not sold in regular agllon jugs. It is to thick to pour at most temperatures.

    Here are some possible scenarios -
    1. The product you are using contains GA but is not pure. The water portion froze. This would cause separation with a thick portion of the pure GA at the bottom and mostly water at the top.
    2. Heat in the van from a TM running and maybe warm weather can really get the temps up inside a van. The heat may have damaged the product.
    3. If the jug was not the original container or it was left open or not tightly sealed then it could have gotten contaminated with various micro-organisms that would break it down with time.

    A combination of these conditions could also have an effect. So choose the one that best suits your situation.

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