Thread: The New Hyper Velocity Recoil 4 XPS

Originally Posted by floorguy_724

Wes, you have got to be kidding me! LMAO!!!!!!


I had a Recoil and have since sold it to a board member. If you don't like the Recoil so be it but don't come on here calling people out for a machine you have never used or seen! It's people like you (and a few others) that start all this porty war crap....just be happy that you are healthy and are happy with the porty you have and are working, leave all this smack fest stuff for the other boards!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't think you read my entire post(s) I spent a good amount of time praising the machine as well. True, I don't own one, and have yet to see it in person, but that's part of my frustration. In post after post I've seen others ask recoil users to put up pics vids of their units. It's usually meet with little response. There are many, including myself, that would like to know just what this machine can do. I understand that there are a few out there that have posted a hand full of still photos, but they're hard to find.

Anyone of the Recoil users could put all this to rest by throwing up a vid to show the power and numbers that it has. If there is one out there, I'm completely unaware of it.

I'm not here to call anyone out. I apologize if anyone feels that way. I have no intention of starting a porty war. Notice how I never once compared my equipment or anyone's to the Recoil. My intention on this board is to make friends, not enemies.

Like mentioned, when I was in the market for my first porty, I was very interested in the Recoil. I wanted the best money could by, but like many, I'm not blessed with an extra 3k to just try out new equipment. I couldn't justify that type of money just to try out the machine. Like others, I rely on boards like this to give me the information that I need to make a good decision. To my knowledge there are no distributors in my area, so I couldn't drop that kind of dough without checking it out first hand.

When I posted in this thread I knew someone out there would try and bust me in the chops. Your response just seems that prove what I've already said. That you, like other Recoil owners, love your machine. Personally, I think it's great. I just don't understand why it's so hard to info on this thing.

Nice response Wes.

Originally Posted by wesdawg67

When I posted in this thread I knew someone out there would try and bust me in the chops. Your response just seems that prove what I've already said. That you, like other Recoil owners, love your machine. Personally, I think it's great. I just don't understand why it's so hard to info on this thing.

Not trying to bust anyones chops here, just tired of people thinking cause of no vids, pics, or specs that all Recoil owners are a cult of some kind. I did have a Recoil and did love it, but I have since sold it cause it was not right for what I wanted it to do.

If you are that interested in the Recoil, give Ed a call or go visit him in MI and see for yourself, if you were any closer I would have shown you my unit myself.

Originally Posted by floorguy_724

Not trying to bust anyones chops here, just tired of people thinking cause of no vids, pics, or specs that all Recoil owners are a cult of some kind. I did have a Recoil and did love it, but I have since sold it cause it was not right for what I wanted it to do.

If you are that interested in the Recoil, give Ed a call or go visit him in MI and see for yourself, if you were any closer I would have shown you my unit myself.

Thank you for the offer to show the machine yourself. Sometimes it's hard to get others out there to be so generous with their time. I did briefly talk to Ed well over a year ago. He was very cordial over the phone, and from what I hear has great customer service.

Call me jaded, but I've been on the bad end of some bad deals in my short life. I don't usually make big decision like that without the benefit of the sight, touch, and feel factor. It's hard to give into temptation sometimes, but I would never buy a new car unless I had an opportunity to test drive it first.

Some of the simplest of things to one, are the biggest things to others. That's the real message that I wanted to convey. That posting up pics and vids like Mytee, US Products, Master Blend, and countless other have done is just good business. It's hard to make an informed decision about thousands of dollars worth of equipment when you feel in the dark about it.

LOL@Mr.E. I agree with you Wes. I like to test drive stuff too. I have been on a porty search like most of you lately to get the best bang for my buck. I have sinced looked (and test drove) the King Cobra 1200, Mytee M-12, and Ninja 1200. Will keep you guys posted..

Post it here in the new TMF Classifieds with pics please...

http://www.truckmountforums.com/clea...ieds/index.php

Originally Posted by floorguy_724

LOL@Mr.E. I agree with you Wes. I like to test drive stuff too. I have been on a porty search like most of you lately to get the best bang for my buck. I have sinced looked (and test drove) the King Cobra 1200, Mytee M-12, and Ninja 1200. Will keep you guys posted..

Please do, I'd really like to get your feed back.

Originally Posted by Rob Allen

Post it here in the new TMF Classifieds with pics please...

http://www.truckmountforums.com/clea...ieds/index.php

Rob,

I just checked out the classified section and they look sweet.

Wes;

In regards to the (rigged) mikeyfest: In all due respect to you personally, I am a little surprised that you would not put 2 & 2 together and some "common-sense" in regards to what was tested. All new equipment was tested........................along with an old --worn out-??--rifled thru model (7 years old at the time) of a Cross-American RECOIL system. It is interesting , and most are aware btw, that the real purpose was to discredit Cross-American and propel a certain other competitor's new knock off model ahead. WE and many others were aware of this while the Taliban followers were poking fun.

Unfortnately, that did not happen and actually the old old Recoil system stood its ground pretty darn well as was reported & tested independently by Ron Werner:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___
Re: Porty Shootout Results
Posted By Ron Werner on 3/17/2009 at 2:06 PM

I would say the M5 is going to be heavier,


AS FOR THE RECOIL
I had no idea how old it was. (note: 7 years old!)


AS for recovery, .
What it showed was that they will ALL work. Just need a good tech on the wand. That's about the best conclusion. (even the 7 year old Recoil 3hp)

We thought it odd that the (2009 model) M5 recovered the least,
(Gees Dave, read the results ),



The next "idiot" that complains about the method or the honesty of the tests, get your butt to the next MF and YOU can do the testing and post the results since you are the ONLY honest person to be trusted and I'll go enjoy myself.
._________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______

Now, those results and comments above are not my own, sir. In fact, it was far out of my control.

However, to suggest that I must or must be required to participate in these kind of unfair practice by IMHO, a bunch of bandits is totally rediculous. They totally focused and destroyed the old recoil unit and featured it on any board that would accept their BS. I think you are aware of this, at least I would hope so.

In my 33-34 years in the manufacturing business we have introduced many many innovations that the competition has tried to take advantage of as knock off's. And, that is alright because they never will know or understand why we design "ours" certain ways and why "theirs" are introduced and then taken back off the shelf because of failure. That's a hugh difference.

The reason you do hear Operators of our Systems, in generall, very happy and proud, is reflective of this Company, its products, and I hope, myself as a person who tells it like it is-----without the salesmanship of sugar-coating-----and follows through with performance in great numbers.

I will continue to operate this business the very successful way we have always ran it, the way I see fit, and not perhaps the way you suggest we run it. Because please remember that we are time tested and proven. We will always strive to be the best and hope to continue to be the Company that everyone compares their machine(s) and or manufacturing company to.

Personally, I would highly suggest that you listen to Floorguy 724 because he is speaking the truth, unless you are like a small handful and chose not to.

The very best and absolutely no offense;
Ed Valentine
"Smart-Design" Systems

Ed,

I can only tell you that disappointment has been the one word that I can use to describe the way your machines are presented. Now before you, or anyone else gets all worked up about that statement, let me explain. I have been researching equipment for several years now. I have demoed units, and don't hold any allegiances to any one company. The disappointment that I have is not being able to see you equipment in action. Not seeing that you able to back up all your claims in terms of flow, lift, CFM, etc. This "take my word for it attitude" has no room in today's business world. Companies don't run themselves that way anymore. Call it a generation gap, or a new market. Call it what ever you want, but most all of your competitors don't operate that way.

Ed, this is not a personal attack on you or your company. That was never the intention. I'm only seeking information that seems impossible to get from ANYONE without actually buying the equipment itself. I can only think of comparing this situation to that of a helicopter parent. Someone who hoovers over their child, their pride and joy, not really allowing them to spread their wings for fear they might fail. You seem to take an extreme amount of pride in your equipment, which you should.

So why is it so hard to show case your talents in building a machine that gets such good praise by it's owners? Proving all the bold statements about performance that you do. If the fest was rigged as you say it was, why couldn't do some of your own testing to counter their accusations? Post it, and let others draw their own conclusion. Rob Allen has a saying that I really like, "Your actions speak louder than your words ever could." Your not wanting to participate is a personal choice, and I respect that. But you have to understand, that to someone like me, a person that analyzes everything you gave me little to work with. Only the words that thoughts of others that you say had it out for you. Now the fest seems to be a dead horse that everyone keeps beating in the mouth, but for me it was one of the defining reasons that I didn't chose to buy a Recoil system.

If a new good working system would have showed up, don't you think it would have blown away the other machines there? If you answer is yes, and I hope it is, isnt' that the real failure in common sense? That we wouldn't need to have these endless conversations about how well the recoil performs.

Now I'm sure that someone in the Cross American family would have been more that happy to show off the stuff to me. At the time of my last equipment purchase there was no one in my area that could be so gracious to do that. The only thing that I was left with was the information that I gathered online, and the brief phone call that I had with you quite some time ago.

Again, I'm not here to try and create controversy, I'm here to try and create a leaning experience for myself, but am having a difficult time doing that when even the owner of the company seems to toss my questions aside. Maybe it's an issue of me not getting the responses that I want to hear, but it's an issue that's echoed by many who look at your equipment as a prospective client.

Originally Posted by ErikG

I am Recoil owner, I will post a video later of my recoil at 100 ft with no booster using my Rotovac Powerwand. I run my unit from the truck and it to is 6 years old. For those others who good porties lets see and hear what your machines suction is at a 100 150 ft, My suction is awsome ......

Erik,

I really appreciate your willingness to poke your head out in the middle of a gun fight. I'm really looking forward to seeing you demonstrate the power your machine has.

I'm sure after seeing, many might have questions, so I hope you're ready to answer.

Does anyone what to see or ask Erik anything specific to demonstrate before he post's his video?

Wes;

(side note to some comments) I have sometimes found it very interesting that a person every now and then will advise us on how we should operate and do our business. Funny because we never suggest how they should run theirs. In fact, when I do have the credentials to do so since I did have a lot of trucks on the road in the service business and have a proven history of 38 total years in the Industry. Must have done something right. Now, it is true that we can always "learn" but as we get a little older and wiser with greater experience, we know how to walk correctly across the street and therefore require specifics...........and not assumptions.

In regards to your statement and assumption:

This "take my word for it attitude" has no room in today's business world. Companies don't run themselves that way anymore.

You are as wrong as the day is long and it is also totally false to assume that that, in fact, is my attitude and has been the way we have promoted our systems over the past 34 years either. We have never ever adopted a "hard-sale" attitude such as that; in fact, the very opposite as anyone who has ever spoken with me would convey to you. That was rediculous to suggest that IMHO.

Respectfully, if I were you as it appears, I would listen closer and pay greater attention to what the "others" have to say about our systems over the years (ex: Erik ; Floorguy 724; etc. above) .......................".AND take their word for it"-----not mine. Not listening to them and trying (as it might appear) twist the truth and logic into deception is just rediculous.

Our systems have had the finest reputation for a long long time and so has my personal dedication & reputation as well as this Company. We work extremely hard for that and will continue to do so. Perhaps, there are some out there who just can't believe that they can purchase a machine, be serviced beyond their imagination, AND be happy and become successful only because of one company and therefore might create this (BS) doubt. Perhaps you are one, perhaps not. (I think Edgar has pointed that out above) But I can't change that.

No sir, we have chosen to be affiliated with GOOD people and will continue to be and we will be attending perhaps a show or two in the future when we aren't so busy and our time isn't in such demand. But I can assure you and others, we will never become a "mee-too" company who will ultimately blend in with the Generic; rather ,we are always here to INNOVATE, SERVICE and ANSWER our customers as faithfully as we do whenever they require that valuable requirement.

The neat thing in this country is that we all have a choice. We all wear different suits, shoes and prefer our own favorite colors. If you feel that our suit doesn't fit what you are looking for, great. You have that choice if you chose to. However, allow the other guy to chose the suit that fits him and let life go on without being critical. Because, someday, you may have a little pleasant surprise and realize who it is that is so deserving of true creditability.

The very best always;
Ed Valentine
"Smart-Design" Systems

Ed,

It doesn't seem that we are going to agree on much here. Which is fine. I've made my points, as you have yours. All I wanted was to shed some light on some of the questions that I had as a prospective client about your equipment. Question that still remain very dark. Those questions which have been completely lost by this endless back and forth word joust. Very Sad.

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree and move on.

The recoil tested out at 170 CFM and 96 inches of lift at the porty shoot out.

They said that the recoil had about 50 hours on it and was stored in a garage for a few years.

The test was put on by the vac motor reps and was over seen by alot of dIfferent manufactors.

The machine that put up the best numbers was the Mytee m5 with 225 cfm and 125 inches of water lift.

The second best performing machine was the Masterforce with 155 cfm and 197 inches of water lift.


''Many different types of performance measurements were made, many of which do not necessarily directly relate to cleaning ability.
2) �CFM� readings were taken with a 25 foot hose with an open inlet condition --- only the CFM meter was on the wand end of the hose. This CFM value indicates the airflow (Cubic feet of airflow per minute) with an open hose condition. Since a hose must be connected to a wand and integral floor nozzle that reduces the orifice (and reduces the CFM) as used on carpet, then the CFM reading cannot be directly used to indicate the nozzle vacuum in actual application''.


''Here are some comments from the Vac Motor Executive. A neutral guy with no axe to grind. He is more then fair and honest. This was not a competition it was a comparison of similarities and differences to give the PCC's info for making any choice they like.''

As has been mentioned before, this testing was done independently by this vacuum motor manufacturer and a few extremely helpful volunteers


recoil commments from the vac motor rep.

'' One unit tested runs normally using 2 motors butr can have a 3rd motor turned on also. With the 3rd motor turned on the sealed vacuum went down but the open CFM increased. If a lower (not balanced) vacuum motor is used for the 3rd boost motor, then at sealed suction the higher vacuum motors can actually leak air through the 3rd motor reducing total sealed vacuum. On the other hand since at the open hose CFM test condition you are operating a very low vacuum, then this 3rd motor still raises total open hose CFM''




general testing with a booster attached comments

''Boosters --- Testing was run using 125 feet of 2� hose comparing the 5 units. The boosters seemed to level the playing field performance. Without the booster the wand vacuum pushing readings ranged from about 22 � 49 inches. With the 2 stage Mytee booster 25 feet from the wand (still 125 feet total) the wand vacuum readings ranged from about 50 to 63 inches. With the 3 stage Mytee booster 25 feet from the wand the vacuum readings ranged from about 53 � 69 inches. Again the readings were much closer with a booster than without''

If you add the cfm plus lift for the top 3 machines you get these numbers.

recoil 170 + 96= 266

M5 225 + 125 = 350

Masterforce 155 + 197 = 352
http://masterblend.net/index.php?opt...bles&Itemid=80