Whats a good grout color sealer, paint,finish etc.. that will hold up to 1200 psi multiple cleanings

**Carpet Matt** · 02-23-2010, 12:51 AM

Iv got one commercial client, monthly service, most locations always clean up awesome, Iv got 2 particulars, that just dont come as clean as the rest. They did saniglaze at one, well that didnt last, they did something at another one, maybe grout doctor, and even at low psi it didnt last. Yes the nightly cleaners will also use ammonia and crazy cleaners and they end up looking worse when they are patchy, then just dirt that wont come clean.

I know there is something when they install these tile floors that makes certain places just not hold up like others, especially when your dealing with 10+ locations with the same ceramic tile down and grout, and 2 locations just wont clean.

**rjfdube** · 02-23-2010, 12:55 AM

What chems are you using? Did any of the grout blow out? What steps are you using?

**Carpet Matt** · 02-23-2010, 01:03 AM

The question should be what havnt I tried, prochem, bridgepoint, acids and alkalines, like renew..etc.. Tried floor stripper. Have tried the "nylogrit" pad driver on a 175 machine,Pressure washing with a wand and direct spray. Have had no issues with grout blow out, we gone higher then 1200 psi.

Typically, we pre spray agitate, extract, tried different ways of agitation, brushes, 175 machine, timing it right with scrub and extract, different dwell times...etc...

**Daron Farrar** · 02-23-2010, 10:31 AM

I don't think than any colorseal will stand up to that, they should use a neutral or mild alk cleaner like Johnsons GP forward diluted 1-2 oz per gallon extract around 800 psi or so. There are some clear sealers that are supposidly permanent and chemical resistant like Dry Treat that I am currently testing, that may be a better option or re-grout with epoxy.

**Scott W** · 02-23-2010, 11:34 AM

The nightly cleaning with ammonia is probably doing more gradual but continuous degradation tot he seal than you 1200 PSI cleaning.

There are several propsucts that could stand up to multiple cleaning if the regular maintenance was done properly and if they were properly applied in the first place.

**shane deubell** · 02-23-2010, 03:45 PM

Aquamix is probably the strongest but it can be difficult to work with for a beginner.It is an epoxy formula and we have used it under the urinals and in commercial restrooms quite a bit with success.

I would start with aquamix and test an area first and track how it holds over couple services.Then turn down pressure alittle for your cleanings and third talk to the customer and suggest if they are going to spend the money on colorseal to revamp the daily cleaning program. If its a quick service restaurant this is going to be difficult.

**RevolutionContracts** · 02-23-2010, 09:28 PM

Hey Matt , I came across a VCT floor to strip a fill days ago, and after get the old finish off, I did see (accent) little bubbles beginning to grow, turn out that the floor was sealed with solvent base sealer, my regular stripper will not handle that! luckily, the dirty came out, and I did apply two ultra gloss floor finish on the top of it, and came out beautiful. Check if somebody didn’t applied a solvent base sealer on the top of dirt floor or tile. this week I came across another one , same situation!

**JStafford** · 02-24-2010, 07:37 PM

I have a few accounts, color sealed with GP, that I clean monthly and so far (knock on wood) they CS is still intact. I only clean these @ 600 psi though. They clean up great, with the GP on them, so I have never needed to increase the PSI. BTW I do not agitate the grout lines with a grout brush but it is not needed anyway. You also need to let the jani crew know that they are to only use a neutral cleaner for day to day cleaning. I would let the owners/manager know as well. Tell them they are doing more harm than good with the way they are maintaining the floors.

**Carpet Matt** · 02-26-2010, 07:21 PM

Thanks for the replies guys.

Hey Shane have you ever used microguard??? Not so tough to apply, but you have to finease it real good during the application, and mix it 24 hours before use, then close the place down for another day, goes right over the tiles and grout. Ammonia eats it up. The drill is the nightly cleaners are supposed to use neutral cleaner, but if they get complaints on their shower walls, out comes the heavier duty stuff, turn over, new cleaners coming in etc...etc..etc.. If I found a good product I could get the place shut down if needed, just looking for some suggestions to try a few out and let them sit in the elements for several monthes so to speak.

Jeremias, your vct story reminds me of one account, on our initial strip a few years ago, we discovered several areas of "burnt" tile hidden under the wax, where the cleaner was "edging" and scratched the floor bad. It did cover back though. That was the sloppiest one Iv ever taken over, finish on the vinyl cove base, hair all in the finish, I think those guys just scrubbed and recoating every month with no burnishing

**Rob Allen** · 02-26-2010, 07:37 PM

I have moved up to a better, longer lasting, more durable product than Grout Perfect.

**Gary T** · 02-26-2010, 08:14 PM

Do share with the rest of the class.

**Matt Strader** · 02-27-2010, 07:23 AM

This is why I think CS is a rip off... It does not fully adhere. I wish people would wise up and see that it is not a good fix.

**shane deubell** · 02-27-2010, 09:06 AM

matt colorseal is not a rip off anymore then repainting your car or house is a rip off or refinishing your wood floor. The same problems happen in each situation it is all about the prep work. If you wax a vct floor without right prep work it will peel off or yellow immediately,same with wood. The problem is people who dont have experience with floors, different principals.

**JStafford** · 02-27-2010, 11:42 AM

Matt, I have CS jobs that has been down for years and still looks new. Shane hit the nail on the head in the post above, it is all in the prep work and application.

**Gary T** · 02-27-2010, 12:40 PM

Well then I could suppose that Scotchguarding carpet is more of a rip off cause it has to be re-applied after you clean it. I have TOG down in commercial for over 5 years now, not a problem. As mentioned above, prep is key with ANY topical. As long as the grout is sound, and prepped properly, it is a far better fix than any other solution out there including re-grouting.

**Carpet Matt** · 03-01-2010, 01:26 AM

My thought is with what the other Matt said. Iv always worried about color seal 6 monthes, 2 years down the road....etc... IV seen first hand color seal peeling, IV also not gotten jobs because of not offering it. Sure I could of gotten some bridgepoint dye and charged an extra .20-.40 per s/f, but I really would like something heavy duty, for the account I mentioned above, and of course charge accordingly a couple bucks a squjare foot. In the situation I mention, its out of my control, what the cleaners would/could do, also who knows what went wrong on the install end of the tile, but something isnt right, when you have that many locations and a few bad ones.

**Gary T** · 03-01-2010, 02:25 PM

Knowledge goes a long way guys. Bashing a product without full knowledge of it's properties, proper prep requirements, applications, to me is ....well....ignorant. Cars crash, planes crash, ships sink, trains derail. So if I were to follow the thinking of some, I guess I should just walk everywhere huh?

Or maybe learn about what it is I am bashing. I see peeling paint everywhere, does that mean it is the paint's fault? Even the cheapest paint will last a long time if the proper prep work is done. Same with color seal.

Matt S, you tried this over on the DG board and got schooled. Color seal is not going to hold up to high heat and psi and we all know that, but how many homeowners use that? Maybe a better examination of the surface in question is in order. Take the time. If you are pulling up color seal there are 2 reasons, bad prep, and YOU didn't examine the floor well enough to identify it was color sealed and went too much heat and psi. Most failures are caused by human error.

**spotman123** · 03-01-2010, 08:20 PM

Many have mentioned proper prep work is a key. I agree. Gary mentioned future cleaning procedures (heat+pressure) to extend the life of the grout. Matt (tread starter) mentioned the in house cleaners using bleach,ammonia etc. How much effect do the cleaners chems have on the color seal??? spotman Oops!! I see you must use neutral floor cleaners. Sorry didn't have my glasses on. spotman

**Rob Allen** · 03-01-2010, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by Gary T

Do share with the rest of the class.

Gary I have researched color seals intensively. I figure if GP could start in a garage then why can't I figure it out in my shop? So what I have found is chemistry continues to evolve at a fast pace. I now mix up my own color sealers that have more resins and raw materials which gives it a stronger bond-ability to sanded or non sanded grout imo and at a great cost savings.