Thread: Looking for used or great deal on new EL DIABLO

How about a new system that's priced less and performs better...?

If you're looking for an oil- fired system, we make them as well. They're built to order currently, but they're very similar to the propane systems that we build.

A Dominator 2545 (25 HP Kohler / #4005 Tuthill blower) sells for $13,495, including accessories. And accessories include:

70 gal. "actual capacity" space- saving recovery tank
200 feet of hose
3 reels
Floor Wand

The propane version features a 250,000 BTU boiler. The oil- fired version is also 250,000 BTU. Both deliver 230 degrees of constant heat, at the wand, at 600 PSI, through a #6 jet or equivalent.

The heater is on a hinge, to allow you to fold it over and access the burner when necessary for maintenance.

The pump is very accessible, yet enclosed in the frame. All plumbing is, "below deck", keeping it very clean in appearance. Yet, it's very easy to access when needed.

One of the things that makes this system outperform others in the vacuum department is that the blower is over-driven by 15%, which makes vacuum performance noticeably "snappier", in addition to moving more CFM.

Here's a picture of a system I recently built for a customer using his old components. It's on a Dominator frame, so the Dominator looks very much like it.

It can have an on- board, belt- driven pump out pump for an extra $950.

(The frame is the first one. I designed it about 2 months ago. I wanted to be sure that there were no mistakes in it before ordering more. There are 4 minor changes coming to the ones that follow this one. 2 of them are related to mounting the pump- out pump. One is the height, which will be reduced by 2 inches. The other is about closing the gaps at the corners of the motor deck. )











The picture below is of the previous version of this system I used to build. At that time, it was called an "Accelerator 2545". (The Dominator was a larger 2747 system then.) Now, that name is consolidated into the new "Dominator" design, with 3 available: 20 HP, 25 HP and 30 HP versions.)

I'm showing it to you, so that you can see the recovery tank design. It's very unique. It's designed to go across the van and contour the backs of the seats, utilizing what is typically wasted space as a result. It also spreads the weight across the van, instead of down one side of it. As a result, the suspension of the van is much more balanced.

This is the tank design featured on the Dominator series systems.

Originally Posted by Steve Smith

Jeff,
(I don't know if he has one out in the field yet?).
What specifically (features) makes you think Duane's are better than the El Diablo's?
Thanks.
Steve.

Yes, Steve, I do have one at this point. The owner is tickled with what it delivers and has finally gotten over his fear of heat to run it at 230 at the wand more often than not.

I can give you a few reasons why I believe that they're better:

1.) Kohler motor. Honda motors do not have self- adjusting valves. As a result, they have to be manually adjusted every 300 hours, according to Honda. That means that they have to be taken in for service every 300. Honda is notorious for going over your service records with a fine- toothed comb when there's a warranty claim. In other words, they seem to do their best to find a reason to disqualify a claim. I've never seen such a thing out of Kohler. I have out of Honda, personally.

2.) 12 volt system. We use a Chevrolet alternator on our oil- fired systems. At about $75, they're much more reasonably- priced than a 110 volt generator, should service or replacement become necessary. (They're easier to find, too.)

3.) Over- driven blower. As mentioned above, I designed these systems to be belt- driven and have over- driven blowers. That means that the blower turns faster than the motor. This is not new for me. I built systems from 1996 to 2001 with over- driven blowers, with no noticeable increase in blower failure... and a big increase in vacuum performance.

4.) 250,000 BTU vs. 195,000 for the El Diablo It's American- made (R.W. Beckett Corporation), with parts readily available from any pressure washer supply / repair facility, in addition to, from us.)

5.) No 90- degree turns in the recovery tank plumbing. (This is something that I've maintained since 1996 when I started building truck mounts.

6.) The recovery tank design. (See above.)

7.) Kunkle valves are over- rated, in my opinion. They are touted as a big selling point on the Diablo. But all they are is an accurate vacuum relief. There are others. The one I spec in is custom- built for us. It has a precision constant- tension stainless steel spring and a high- density plastic (i.e., it won't corrode) seal, machined for close tolerance fit. It's set at 16" Hg.


Other than the fact that it uses fuel oil and a fuel oil burner, these systems are identical to the propane systems I've built for years.

No system I design has, has had, or will have relays, computers, etc., or proprietary parts, other than structural parts like the frame itself.

Very nice set up

Mine is to loud and there are now lots of store I can't do.. So I'll be looking at one of his setups as well for my other van ??

I'm sold on his TMs and know it will last and treat me good ..

Originally Posted by Duane Oxley

How about a new system that's priced less and performs better...?

If you're looking for an oil- fired system, we make them as well. They're built to order currently, but they're very similar to the propane systems that we build.

A Dominator 2545 (25 HP Kohler / #4005 Tuthill blower) sells for $13,495, including accessories. And accessories include:

70 gal. "actual capacity" space- saving recovery tank
200 feet of hose
3 reels
Floor Wand

The propane version features a 250,000 BTU boiler. The oil- fired version is also 250,000 BTU. Both deliver 230 degrees of constant heat, at the wand, at 600 PSI, through a #6 jet or equivalent.

The heater is on a hinge, to allow you to fold it over and access the burner when necessary for maintenance.

The pump is very accessible, yet enclosed in the frame. All plumbing is, "below deck", keeping it very clean in appearance. Yet, it's very easy to access when needed.

One of the things that makes this system outperform others in the vacuum department is that the blower is over-driven by 15%, which makes vacuum performance noticeably "snappier", in addition to moving more CFM.

Here's a picture of a system I recently built for a customer using his old components. It's on a Dominator frame, so the Dominator looks very much like it.

It can have an on- board, belt- driven pump out pump for an extra $950.

(The frame is the first one. I designed it about 2 months ago. I wanted to be sure that there were no mistakes in it before ordering more. There are 4 minor changes coming to the ones that follow this one. 2 of them are related to mounting the pump- out pump. One is the height, which will be reduced by 2 inches. The other is about closing the gaps at the corners of the motor deck. )











The picture below is of the previous version of this system I used to build. At that time, it was called an "Accelerator 2545". (The Dominator was a larger 2747 system then.) Now, that name is consolidated into the new "Dominator" design, with 3 available: 20 HP, 25 HP and 30 HP versions.)

I'm showing it to you, so that you can see the recovery tank design. It's very unique. It's designed to go across the van and contour the backs of the seats, utilizing what is typically wasted space as a result. It also spreads the weight across the van, instead of down one side of it. As a result, the suspension of the van is much more balanced.

This is the tank design featured on the Dominator series systems.

Originally Posted by CarpetKing

Duane, I have heard nothing but good things about your machines on here and ****** Board as well. I am just dead set on a Diablo. Love the heat, the oil drain on front of machine, kunkle valve, the generator, and honestly love the way it looks. I have a judson nitro now and it has been a great and reliable machine for me. Not crazy for the Briggs motors though - replaced mine with a Honda 20 and it seems to turn the blower much faster. Also been looking to get away from the propane and going to the kero/diesel burner is much better heat than going HX. Been in business 7 years and this is the first time I have ever felt like "I have to have this truckmount"

Then you should get the Diablo. If you're "jazzed" by how it looks, that's important, in my opinion. When designing a new system, a good part of what I struggle with is how it's going to look. So I completely understand your statement in that regard.

For the record... I don't build with Briggs any more. The system in the pictures is a rebuild of one that was from when I did. That customer originally got it from me in 1998. And that motor was replaced somewhere along the way. The original motor was a Briggs Vanguard 18, just like the one that replaced it.

Oil drains are conveniently- located on this system (as they are on all I build), as well, BTW. The engine's oil- drain is a special "bayonet" style, "twist to open" designed and built by Kohler. The Cat pump has a 90- degree elbow with a plug in it. The elbow points down, and there's a long slot in the pump mount for the oil to drop through. Under the pump, you can place a container on top of the mufflers to catch the oil. (There's a lot of space there for a container, as you can see.) The blower oil drain is out in the open and easy to access as well.

Originally Posted by Vinnie

Duane: If you were building this mach. for yourself what would you go with, Oil or Propane fired system.

Vinnie:

I'm "torn" over the answer to this one...


Propane...

Propane is simpler and cleaner. When built with boilers like the one you see, it has no disadvantage to kerosene, regarding heat output.

But, it can be a pain to find a location that sells it when you want it, and forget about finding any in the middle of the night if you run out then.

But a little planning can prevent the above, for the most part.



Oil- fired...

Oil- fired is time- proven and reliable. It's not as simple and requires a bit more maintenance. (Electrode gap, for instance.)

But you can always find fuel for it, if you're willing to burn diesel in it. (Diesel has more of an odor and doesn't burn as clean, but many gas stations sell it. And there are always 24- hour stations to be found that do.)

With oil- fired, there is no safety concern in going through tunnels in large cities. (I hear that trucks with propane tanks are banned from entering some tunnels up North.)

And there's that diesel / kerosene odor. There's no way around it.



Heat Exchange...

HX systems are more complicated than either propane or oil- fired, as a rule. And, because they don't use a secondary fuel, they use the components for the heat source. As a result, the components for a HX system have to be larger than a fossil fuel system, to generate a specific amount of heat. So, they cost more, per amount of heat generated.

Most HX systems do "tricky" things to strain the system and generate more consistent heat. For instance, the vast majority strains the blower by choking down the size of the intake port. This places a constant strain on the engine and increases the engine's output temperature as a result. It also restricts the airflow through the blower, so that you do not get the full vacuum potential of that blower.

It is my belief, that this typical choking of the blower airflow, is why people think that you have to have a bigger blower now than they used to. Because to have the airflow of a specific blower, you basically have to buy a system with the next larger size.

If you look at a typical HX system made today, there is a lot of effort aimed at pre- heating the water. This is usually done via bypass loops back to the fresh water tank, either from a "Y" on the output from the exhaust exchanger, or through a secondary exchanger, such as a blower exchanger or oil cooler, etc. All of this adds complication, because each loop has to be monitored and controlled individually.

I've designed an approach to HX systems that requires none of this. It's all done via airflow and utilizes a pre-heat fresh water reservoir that's actually a heat exchanger, so that the heat to the tank is direct. I call it the "exchanger- tank", and I've filed a patent on it and on how it's controlled via a secondary airflow diverter. Here's what the first one looked like:


The new belt- drive version will be as clean looking as the original pictures I posted.

(I've also designed a smaller version of this that has just the one diverter on the engine exhaust, and uses the same exchanger- tank idea.) Here's an idea of what it looks like:



With a 25 Kohler and a 45 Tuthill blower, I got 203 degrees at the wand in the Summer time from that design. (I call it the "Nemesis".) But that temperature dropped to 175 in the winter time, which is not acceptable to me. So, I revised the design. The new version is almost complete (It fits on the same belt drive frame you see in the pictures above.) And it features copper tubes in the exchanger- tank for better heat transfer capability and an over- driven blower (for more heat availability in the first place).

The smaller version has a 20 Kohler and a 3006 Tuthill, and an aluminum exchanger- tank (hard- anodized, to prevent corrosion) with aluminum tubes. (Costs less than copper, and has almost as much efficiency as copper.) I have 2 of them sold and am getting them ready for delivery now. I'll post completed pictures of them in about a week.


So, Vinnie, my answer isn't that simple. I'm partial to propane. I sold propane systems from 1981 to 1987 and cleaned with them personally from 1988 to 1996. Then I built them from 1996 until 2008. So, I'm completely at home with propane.

Oil- fired has a convenience factor, in terms of access to fuel, 24- 7. But that can be planned around with propane.

Heat is king. And when (not "if") I get a HX system that can deliver 230 at the wand consistently and simply, I'll be totally sold on HX.

And I'm almost there...